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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 07 January 2016

07 Jan 2016 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Lobbying (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Stevenson, Stewart SNP Banffshire and Buchan Coast Watch on SPTV

The committee’s view is that we need to seek to differentiate between lobbyists who lobby as part of their paid activity and those individuals and organisations that are working in a voluntary context in which people receive no financial or similar reward. We think that that distinction is a good one.

The member referred to integrity, intellect and energy. I cannot speak for the committee because we did not discuss the issue in quite those terms but I suspect that the committee would view having a register of lobbyists and shining a light into what goes on in regard to lobbying as providing an excellent opportunity for us all to demonstrate those three attributes of integrity, intellect and energy.

The committee understands that the definition of registrable lobbying in the bill is designed to capture the most meaningful interactions and that a line was drawn in an effort to produce a light-touch regime. Nevertheless, in thinking about it since our original report, we feel that that approach may be too narrow and could create the impression of there being options open to organisations that wish to avoid scrutiny. We have therefore recommended that consideration be given to widening the definition of registrable lobbying to include all forms of communication.

We have not looked directly at the potential effects of that widening of the definition and hence ask the Government to do that. In practice, my personal experience—I stress that it is my personal experience—does not suggest that such an extension of the definition would significantly increase the number of registrants.

My personal reflection is that we must test to see whether such an extension would inhibit communication between MSPs and constituents. That is one of the essential tests. We must not overburden organisations, in particular small organisations that are pursuing legitimate campaigns, by creating an administrative headache for them—or for Parliament, although the former are the more important consideration.

During the bill’s progress we will not, of course, decide what the proposed register’s contents will be—Parliament will come to that matter after the bill’s passage. However, at this stage, it is worth saying that the committee is not suggesting that the details of every phone call and email should appear in the register; we suggest that it should contain merely the fact that there have been such communications and what their purpose has been. To include all the details would generate a great deal of repetitive information and possibly render the register less useful and accessible to citizens by burying the relevant information.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott) Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-15220, in the name of Joe FitzPatrick. 15:16
The Minister for Parliamentary Business (Joe FitzPatrick) SNP
The Lobbying (Scotland) Bill is an unusual bill: it has been introduced by the Government, but is parliamentary in nature. For that reason, I have been keen ...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
I would like to exemplify the point. If the minister has a problem with a product that he has bought or a bill that he gets and he has to contact a company t...
Joe FitzPatrick SNP
As I said, the Government is keeping an open mind on the issue. Our starting point in attempting to provide a proportionate response has been to consider wha...
Neil Findlay Lab
Again, I ask a question: is most of our time taken up meeting people face to face or is most of our time taken up dealing with communications of another type?
Joe FitzPatrick SNP
We would all have to go and look at our diaries to work out how much time we spend meeting people. I am clear in my view that face-to-face lobbying is the mo...
Mary Fee (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I thank the minister for taking another intervention. I will be very brief. Will the minister clarify in what form were the bulk of the communications that h...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
I will give you extra time, minister.
Joe FitzPatrick SNP
Okay. In terms of volume, I—like every other member—have probably received the greater volume in the form of emails, which is significant. However, in terms ...
Neil Findlay Lab
Because your staff read the emails.
Joe FitzPatrick SNP
I think that I, myself, have read every single email that has come in about the bill. I will continue: I have had meetings with stakeholders on all sides of...
John Wilson (Central Scotland) (Ind) Ind
Would the minister make a distinction between lobbying and organised lobbying? The majority of emails that I have had this week on the bill, and those on oth...
Joe FitzPatrick SNP
I am conscious that I should make some progress, but that is absolutely the case, and the bill as drafted makes that distinction, which is very important. T...
Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) SNP
The term “lobbying” can, for some people at least, conjure up images of dubious characters loitering in the corridors of power, attempting to gain unfair adv...
Chic Brodie (South Scotland) (SNP) SNP
Warren Buffet once said that the contribution of people, particularly those in public service, requires integrity, intellect and energy, and without the firs...
Stewart Stevenson SNP
The committee’s view is that we need to seek to differentiate between lobbyists who lobby as part of their paid activity and those individuals and organisati...
Neil Findlay Lab
Having read the committee’s stage 1 report, I understand that it rejected thresholds for registration. That was an error. Having thresholds would have meant ...
Stewart Stevenson SNP
There was an element of judgment; there is no absolute certainty in this. However, the test of including only people who receive reward for their lobbying is...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
You have nine minutes, Mr Stevenson, but there is a little flexibility.
Stewart Stevenson SNP
Thank you—that is helpful. We looked at the distinction that the bill makes between paid and unpaid lobbying. We basically endorsed the Government’s approac...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
I am pleased to open the debate on behalf on the Labour Party. I am also pleased that the Government has got round to introducing the bill, because this deba...
Chic Brodie SNP
Not here.
Neil Findlay Lab
Calm your jets, Mr Brodie. After all those things and the current financial controversies of some MPs, that general standing is not high. Thankfully, the Pa...
Joe FitzPatrick SNP
It is not the case that the Government does not recognise those other forms of lobbying. Indeed, the bill allows for the Parliament to put in place guidance ...
Neil Findlay Lab
I thank the minister for confirming that he is not a Luddite and that he is a modern man in the modern age. I am sure that he will want to ensure that the bi...
Cameron Buchanan (Lothian) (Con) Con
I, too, am glad that we have the chance to debate the Lobbying (Scotland) Bill and all of the possible routes to take. If we are to achieve the cross-party c...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith) Lab
We turn to the open debate, with speeches of six minutes or so. At this stage, there is a bit of time in hand for interventions. 16:00
George Adam (Paisley) (SNP) SNP
I was a member of the Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee during the original inquiry into lobbying and while most of the work on the iss...
Neil Findlay Lab
Will Mr Adam take an intervention?
George Adam SNP
Can I just get this point across, Mr Findlay? The bill as it stands will make it difficult for local employers and small businesses to contact me. Some smal...