Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 07 January 2016
07 Jan 2016 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Lobbying (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Warren Buffet once said that the contribution of people, particularly those in public service, requires integrity, intellect and energy, and without the first one, the other two are useless.
I think that the member would agree that we should seek to retain all those characteristics and my evidence today is that they are endemic in this Parliament. I am therefore concerned—even sure—that the consequence of the bill may be, in the long run, the very opposite of what is intended, in that those characteristics may well be damaged. Does the member accept that, should the bill go ahead, the committee must ensure that there will be no exceptions for different types of lobbyist?
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott)
Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-15220, in the name of Joe FitzPatrick. 15:16
The Minister for Parliamentary Business (Joe FitzPatrick)
SNP
The Lobbying (Scotland) Bill is an unusual bill: it has been introduced by the Government, but is parliamentary in nature. For that reason, I have been keen ...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
I would like to exemplify the point. If the minister has a problem with a product that he has bought or a bill that he gets and he has to contact a company t...
Joe FitzPatrick
SNP
As I said, the Government is keeping an open mind on the issue. Our starting point in attempting to provide a proportionate response has been to consider wha...
Neil Findlay
Lab
Again, I ask a question: is most of our time taken up meeting people face to face or is most of our time taken up dealing with communications of another type?
Joe FitzPatrick
SNP
We would all have to go and look at our diaries to work out how much time we spend meeting people. I am clear in my view that face-to-face lobbying is the mo...
Mary Fee (West Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
I thank the minister for taking another intervention. I will be very brief. Will the minister clarify in what form were the bulk of the communications that h...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
I will give you extra time, minister.
Joe FitzPatrick
SNP
Okay. In terms of volume, I—like every other member—have probably received the greater volume in the form of emails, which is significant. However, in terms ...
Neil Findlay
Lab
Because your staff read the emails.
Joe FitzPatrick
SNP
I think that I, myself, have read every single email that has come in about the bill. I will continue: I have had meetings with stakeholders on all sides of...
John Wilson (Central Scotland) (Ind)
Ind
Would the minister make a distinction between lobbying and organised lobbying? The majority of emails that I have had this week on the bill, and those on oth...
Joe FitzPatrick
SNP
I am conscious that I should make some progress, but that is absolutely the case, and the bill as drafted makes that distinction, which is very important. T...
Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP)
SNP
The term “lobbying” can, for some people at least, conjure up images of dubious characters loitering in the corridors of power, attempting to gain unfair adv...
Chic Brodie (South Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
Warren Buffet once said that the contribution of people, particularly those in public service, requires integrity, intellect and energy, and without the firs...
Stewart Stevenson
SNP
The committee’s view is that we need to seek to differentiate between lobbyists who lobby as part of their paid activity and those individuals and organisati...
Neil Findlay
Lab
Having read the committee’s stage 1 report, I understand that it rejected thresholds for registration. That was an error. Having thresholds would have meant ...
Stewart Stevenson
SNP
There was an element of judgment; there is no absolute certainty in this. However, the test of including only people who receive reward for their lobbying is...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
You have nine minutes, Mr Stevenson, but there is a little flexibility.
Stewart Stevenson
SNP
Thank you—that is helpful. We looked at the distinction that the bill makes between paid and unpaid lobbying. We basically endorsed the Government’s approac...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
I am pleased to open the debate on behalf on the Labour Party. I am also pleased that the Government has got round to introducing the bill, because this deba...
Chic Brodie
SNP
Not here.
Neil Findlay
Lab
Calm your jets, Mr Brodie. After all those things and the current financial controversies of some MPs, that general standing is not high. Thankfully, the Pa...
Joe FitzPatrick
SNP
It is not the case that the Government does not recognise those other forms of lobbying. Indeed, the bill allows for the Parliament to put in place guidance ...
Neil Findlay
Lab
I thank the minister for confirming that he is not a Luddite and that he is a modern man in the modern age. I am sure that he will want to ensure that the bi...
Cameron Buchanan (Lothian) (Con)
Con
I, too, am glad that we have the chance to debate the Lobbying (Scotland) Bill and all of the possible routes to take. If we are to achieve the cross-party c...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith)
Lab
We turn to the open debate, with speeches of six minutes or so. At this stage, there is a bit of time in hand for interventions. 16:00
George Adam (Paisley) (SNP)
SNP
I was a member of the Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee during the original inquiry into lobbying and while most of the work on the iss...
Neil Findlay
Lab
Will Mr Adam take an intervention?
George Adam
SNP
Can I just get this point across, Mr Findlay? The bill as it stands will make it difficult for local employers and small businesses to contact me. Some smal...