Committee
Education and Culture Committee 07 December 2015
07 Dec 2015 · S4 · Education and Culture Committee
Item of business
Education (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
Thank you for allowing me to speak, convener. There is no doubt that every party in the Scottish Parliament is absolutely determined to do something to raise educational attainment and I commend the Scottish Government for prioritising this issue. However, I echo concerns that Liam McArthur and Mary Scanlon raised about the timescale and the process for the national improvement framework. We are not sure what the detail is, which makes it very difficult to make amendments to the bill at stage 2 in preparation for stage 3. When the cabinet secretary sums up, I would be interested in hearing some comment on the literacy and numeracy data that we already have. We were told by Calum Munro on 17 November that much of that data exists, and I presume that the cabinet secretary is trying to enshrine a lot of reporting in the legislation to ensure that it is more consistent. However, I think that the current proposals for the reporting duty would make it very top heavy. I worry that we are going to place a burden on local authorities and teachers, who will spend so much time reporting that it will be difficult for them to get on with the job in the classroom, which is the most important thing that they have to do. 12:00 When it comes to the concerns that we all have about narrowing the gap—I would say “narrowing”; it is difficult to talk about closing it altogether—it is important that we listen not only to those whom you have consulted but to those on the front line in local authorities who will have to deliver this. There are differences of opinion within local authorities on how we should try to narrow the gap. As Mary Scanlon rightly pointed out, different schools have different approaches. I have two comments to make in summing up. First, it is unfortunate that we are being asked to make amendments at a time when we do not have the detail. Secondly, we have to be very careful indeed that we are not creating an extensive reporting bureaucracy, which could detract from what we all want to achieve.
In the same item of business
The Convener (Stewart Maxwell)
SNP
Good morning, everyone, and welcome to the Education and Culture Committee’s 30th meeting in 2015. My name is Stewart Maxwell; I am a West Scotland MSP and t...
The Convener
SNP
I remind members that this group is about a big part of the bill. Given its size and complexity, I will give extra flexibility to and be as lenient as possib...
The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Lifelong Learning (Angela Constance)
SNP
Good morning, committee. Collectively and individually, the Government amendments in the group will give effect to and support our key priorities of deliveri...
Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Con
This is a historic occasion.
Angela Constance
SNP
None of my amendments specifies the content of the framework or the detail of the assessment. That is deliberate. It would be inappropriate to specify the ex...
The Convener
SNP
Thank you, cabinet secretary. Before I call Mark Griffin, I welcome the pupils of Commercial primary school. It is good to see you—welcome to the Education a...
Mark Griffin (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
I believe that we need to put looked-after children at the heart of the attainment gap challenge. We are seeking to provide an equal footing for Scotland’s k...
The Convener
SNP
I welcome a second group of pupils from Commercial primary school to the Education and Culture Committee. I call John Pentland to speak to amendment 104B and...
John Pentland (Motherwell and Wishaw) (Lab)
Lab
Amendments 104B, 104C and 104F were lodged by Malcolm Chisholm. He believes that the amendments would help to reduce pupil inequalities and strengthen outcom...
The Convener
SNP
I call Mary Scanlon to speak to amendment 104E and the other amendments in the group.
Mary Scanlon
Con
It is a great privilege to sit in this very grand room in Dunfermline. I am sitting looking at a plaque to the first provost of Dunfermline, who was provost ...
The Convener
SNP
Thank you very much. I call Liam McArthur to speak to amendment 106A and the other amendments in the group.
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD)
LD
I will start by offering Mary Scanlon some gentle advice. She might be in danger of overplaying her hand if the dark mutterings among Scottish National Party...
The Convener
SNP
Thank you, Liam. If any other members wish to contribute to this debate, could they please indicate? I call Liz Smith.
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
Thank you for allowing me to speak, convener. There is no doubt that every party in the Scottish Parliament is absolutely determined to do something to raise...
Chic Brodie (South Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
Good morning. I wish to speak against amendments 106B and 107A to 107D, in the name of Mary Scanlon, and amendments 162 and 163, in the name of Mark Griffin....
George Adam (Paisley) (SNP)
SNP
When Mary Scanlon was speaking, I was reminded of an old colleague of mine at Renfrewshire Council, Jim Mitchell. When he was winning an argument and getting...
The Convener
SNP
Cabinet secretary, before I call you to wind up, I have three questions for you; I hope that you will be able to cover them when you sum up. The first is on ...
Angela Constance
SNP
I gave a lengthy statement at the beginning of the meeting and I thank the committee for its forbearance. I will try hard not to repeat that lengthy statemen...
Liam McArthur
LD
On that point, you have referred several times to an assessment process. As I said, there is universal agreement that that assessment process is part and par...
Angela Constance
SNP
With respect, Mr McArthur, I explicitly referred to that in my opening statement. However, I appreciate that it was a lengthy statement. Therefore, with the ...
The Convener
SNP
Thank you very much. Before I call Mark Griffin, I welcome a third group of pupils from Commercial primary school. Welcome to you all—I hope that you enjoy v...
Mark Griffin
Lab
I appreciate what the cabinet secretary had to say. I do not doubt for a second her or anyone else’s ambition to close the attainment gap for looked-after ch...
The Convener
SNP
The question is, that amendment 104A be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No.
The Convener
SNP
There will be a division. For Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab) McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD) Pentland, John (Motherwell and Wishaw) (Lab) A...
The Convener
SNP
The result of the division is: For 3, Against 6, Abstentions 0. Amendment 104A disagreed to. Amendments 104B and 104C not moved. Amendment 104D moved—Mark...
The Convener
SNP
The question is, that amendment 104D be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No.
The Convener
SNP
There will be a division. For Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab) McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD) Pentland, John (Motherwell and Wishaw) (Lab) A...
The Convener
SNP
The result of the division is: For 3, Against 6, Abstentions 0. Amendment 104D disagreed to. Amendment 104E moved—Mary Scanlon.
The Convener
SNP
The question is, that amendment 104E be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No.