Committee
Environment and Rural Development Committee, 05 Feb 2007
05 Feb 2007 · S2 · Environment and Rural Development Committee
Item of business
Cairngorms National Park Boundary Bill: Stage 1
I welcome committee members, witnesses and members of the public and the press to this meeting of the Environment and Rural Development Committee in Blair Atholl. We are delighted to be here and look forward to an interesting and productive meeting.Apologies have been received from Alasdair Morrison and Elaine Smith, who are unable to be with us.I welcome John Swinney, who is a local constituency member of the Scottish Parliament, and Mark Ruskell, who is a regional MSP. Pete Wishart, who is the local member of Parliament, hopes to join us, but he is not here yet. We hope that he will turn up later.I remind everybody to turn off their mobile phones so that the meeting will not be disturbed. I see people searching for their mobile phones in their pockets to ensure that they are turned off.Today, we continue consideration of the Cairngorms National Park Boundary Bill, which is a member's bill that was introduced by John Swinney. The Environment and Rural Development Committee has been appointed as lead committee to consider the bill at stage 1. Our task is to consider its general principles and to report to the Parliament, recommending whether those general principles should be agreed to.Last week, we had an introductory session on the bill, during which we took evidence from John Swinney. Today, several witnesses with expertise or an interest in the issues that the bill raises will give evidence. We are pleased to have a local meeting, which is easier for interested people to attend.All the witnesses have provided helpful written submissions, which are publicly available on the committee's web page for people to peruse. The committee issued an open call for written evidence and received several other submissions, which have been circulated to members. They are also on the committee's web page for the benefit of the public.John Swinney is not a member of the committee, but as the member in charge of the bill he is entitled to attend and participate in proceedings. That said, he cannot vote when the committee considers its conclusions on the bill.There will be two parts to the meeting. First we will hear from people who are involved with local businesses and from local community representatives, then we will hear from environmental and recreational bodies and the public agencies that are involved.In between our sets of witnesses, we will take a break from the formal meeting for around half an hour, when tea and coffee will be served in a room next door. During the break, committee members will have a chance to chat informally with members of the public, who may wish to express views to them. That will be a chance to network and for people to talk to MSPs outside the formal meeting.There are two panels of witnesses for the first part of the meeting. Panel 1, which I welcome, consists of Andrew Bruce Wootton, who is general manager of Atholl Estates; Lin Muirhead, who is chairperson of Blair Atholl area tourism association; Geoff Crerar, who is chair of Blair Atholl and Struan community council and a small business owner; and Professor Ian Brown, who is chair of the Pitlochry partnership.Committee members have had the chance to read the witnesses' submissions, and I invite them to ask questions.
In the same item of business
The Convener (Maureen Macmillan):
Lab
I welcome committee members, witnesses and members of the public and the press to this meeting of the Environment and Rural Development Committee in Blair At...
Richard Lochhead (Moray) (SNP):
SNP
It is great to be in Blair Atholl, which is in a beautiful part of Scotland. Part of the northern part of the Cairngorms national park is in Moray, which I r...
Lin Muirhead (Blair Atholl Area Tourism Association):
First of all, welcome to Blair Atholl, everybody. It is nice to see so many people from the tourism association here. We have really only started to consider...
Professor Ian Brown (Pitlochry Partnership):
One of the issues that we in Pitlochry face is that we are in the Cairngorms—we are so close that we might as well be in the park. We would have no problem i...
Andrew Bruce Wootton (Atholl Estates):
We must consider the issue from a tourist's point of view. For people who come from a foreign country and who know nothing about the geography and history of...
Geoff Crerar (Blair Atholl and Struan Community Council):
I endorse what has been said. We have a natural gateway and we must be aware that creating an artificial or synthetic gateway somewhere else confuses the pub...
Richard Lochhead:
SNP
Those answers were interesting. The submissions show clearly that most people believe that there is neither rhyme nor reason to why the Government excluded t...
Professor Brown:
We have no comprehension or understanding of that at all.
Richard Lochhead:
SNP
You were not given an official explanation.
Lin Muirhead:
No; nothing.
Mr Ted Brocklebank (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con):
Con
The answers were interesting. There seems almost to be unanimity that the proposals would bring great tourism benefits. From the submissions that we have rea...
Andrew Bruce Wootton:
Yes. We run a business and are largely responsible for managing a large area of land that does not have a huge rate of return per acre. As a marginal busines...
Mr Brocklebank:
Con
You have other concerns about the possible extra costs that you would have to absorb, including a particular issue with what might be involved in possible pa...
Andrew Bruce Wootton:
Yes. In our submission, we have identified the running costs of the business, much of which provides either an environmental or a public benefit. Obviously, ...
Mr Brocklebank:
Con
Are you able to quantify those costs in thousands of pounds?
Andrew Bruce Wootton:
The area is quite large, so one expects that it would be quite expensive to manage. The approximate costs of the moorland management, deer control and enviro...
Peter Peacock (Highlands and Islands) (Lab):
Lab
I also want to follow up on the evidence that you submitted. One argument that recurs from those, including John Swinney, who want to extend the park is that...
Andrew Bruce Wootton:
We support the park, its objectives and the inclusion of highland Perthshire, subject to some areas of concern. The point in our submission is that, because ...
Peter Peacock:
Lab
I want to pursue a separate point. In its evidence, the Mountaineering Council of Scotland argues that, if the area that John Swinney suggests is not in the ...
Andrew Bruce Wootton:
Clearly, there is an element of good will, but there is also good land management and good business practice. Our practice on Atholl Estates is not seen as g...
The Convener:
Lab
I think that Professor Brown wants to answer the question.
Professor Brown:
As long as the good will exists that is fine, but in five, 10 or 15 years who knows what may come about? The whole argument for inclusion is to be part of a ...
Mr Mark Ruskell (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green):
Green
I am not sure whether the witnesses managed to read the submissions from other witnesses. The submission from Highland Council identified that a major benefi...
Lin Muirhead:
The problem that you mention could be easily overcome. When the new A9 was being built it was proposed that there should be a small slip road off to the left...
Mr Ruskell:
Green
I presume that that turn-off would take you past other relevant tourism-related sites, such as the National Trust for Scotland centre.
Professor Brown:
As far as Pitlochry is concerned you do not have to cross the traffic to get into town, no matter in which direction you are going. There is not an issue. I ...
Rob Gibson (Highlands and Islands) (SNP):
SNP
Let us return to the land area that we are talking about. Before I deal with the tourism aspects, I want to ask about the topography, which includes the Comy...
Professor Brown:
No. One of the original arguments was about consistency and coherence and having a focus for the national park, but the present boundary simply does not meet...
Rob Gibson:
SNP
Of course, in the past people used the two passes that I mentioned to travel through the Cairngorms.What areas does the deer management group that deals with...
Andrew Bruce Wootton:
No. Our group is the west Grampian deer management group, and our area extends from the west side of Atholl, including Dalnacardoch, and spreads across to En...