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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 02 December 2015

02 Dec 2015 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Named Persons

Some may argue that, as the named persons policy is enshrined in statute, the train has left the station and is now clattering down the rails. However, it is a controversial measure, and it is the duty of this Parliament to monitor the progress of the train and, indeed, consider whether it should slow down, take a different route or pause in a siding.

That assessment requires constant questioning of the Government about progress. For example, it has come to light that the Scottish Government had abolished the expert programme board that had been advising it on GIRFEC. I appreciate that the national implementation support group remains, but there is a lack of transparency about what advice the Government has been receiving, because none of it has been published—although late yesterday afternoon, we had a flurry of Scottish Government activity, with the publication of final draft guidance. It is quite amazing what an Opposition debate can trigger.

We know that at the penultimate meeting of the programme board in May 2014 an assistant chief constable raised the issue of ensuring that high-risk children remained a focus when the legislation took effect. That is why an absence of transparency with regard to where we are is very troubling. The debate is therefore timely and has presented a useful opportunity both to remind Parliament of and allow Parliament to discuss the strong criticism that the policy faces from professionals. That criticism might be unwelcome to the Scottish Government, but nevertheless it needs to listen to it, because these are the people who are likely to be on the front line of delivery as the date of implementation edges closer.

The principle of GIRFEC has, of course, found support across the chamber, but the universality of the named person legislation has raised both philosophical and practical challenges. In that respect, I want to highlight concerns that have been articulated neither by me nor by my party, but independently by other groups.

The executive director of the Scottish Parent Teacher Council, Eileen Prior, said in an interview with Holyrood magazine only last month:

“Named person, in my view, is a red herring which will undermine trust and cause issues between families, schools or other professionals, divert resources from those families most in need, add to professionals’ workload and lead to more families being drawn into the system unnecessarily.”

If that is so, there is a risk that children will be hesitant to access confidential services. That point has also been argued by the children’s legal charity Clan Childlaw, which in May said that the policy

“creates a serious risk that children and young people will not access confidential services when they are in need of help.”

Indeed, that undermining of trust in professionals might also affect families, who could become fearful that being open about the problems that they face or the support that they need will lead to that information being shared in a way that is prejudicial to them.

The next problem relates to the extensive costs, the practical consequences and the bureaucracy that is necessary in implementing the policy. Although I did not agree with everything that he said, Iain Gray made some hard-hitting points. The Scottish Government presumes that, for the majority of school-age children, the named person will be a teacher. However, teachers already face substantial workload pressures. The Association of Headteachers and Deputes Scotland warned in February that it was

“very concerned about the workload that this might generate”

and said the matter had to be addressed before commencement. That was echoed in the summer by the EIS, which argued:

“the default position should not be assumed that a school should always be expected to provide the named person irrespective of its capacity and resources.”

Those are real concerns, given that we have information for the costs of GIRFEC for 2016-17 that shows that more than a third of those costs—or almost £10 million—will fall on local authorities that are already under budget pressures. In the same year, GIRFEC will cost the national health service more than £16 million, which leads me to quote the director of the Royal College of Nursing, who said earlier this year:

“many of our health visitor members have deep concerns that even with the planned boost in numbers there just won’t be enough hours in the day”

to carry out named person duties.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith) Lab
Before we start the debate, I need to remind members that legal proceedings are on-going in relation to the legislative competence of the named persons provi...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
Three years ago, when Parliament first debated in earnest the SNP’s plans to introduce named persons, concerns were raised across the chamber not just about ...
Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (Lab) Lab
Will Liz Smith give way?
Liz Smith Con
I ask Mr Chisholm to let me make a bit of progress. Of course those children need help, and of course every effort must be made to assist local authorities,...
Mark McDonald (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) SNP
Liz Smith will be aware of the pathfinder project in Highland Council’s area, the outcomes of which were a 75 per cent time saving for professionals, a 50 pe...
Liz Smith Con
Mark McDonald will be aware that the conclusion of the pathfinder study was that there is no proof that those outcomes were due to the named person policy or...
The Minister for Learning, Science and Scotland’s Languages (Dr Alasdair Allan) SNP
That assertion is disgraceful.
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Order, please. We cannot have sedentary interventions.
Liz Smith Con
No, it is not disgraceful. That is exactly what is happening in our schools. At the end of the day, and despite all the protestations that we are hearing ju...
Dr Allan SNP
We have already heard about the example from Highland Council, which of course was using a system similar to the named person system prior to the pilot. Has ...
Liz Smith Con
I have every kind of evidence. We have seen in the newspapers that many parents are fed up with being told what they have to agree to. The Scottish Governmen...
The Minister for Children and Young People (Aileen Campbell) SNP
What element of SHANARRI does Liz Smith disagree with?
Liz Smith Con
How on earth can the minister accept that SHANARRI is an acceptable way of assessing a child? Interruption.
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Order, please. Minister, please stop shouting from a sedentary position.
Liz Smith Con
The minister is perhaps getting a little uptight. Perhaps that is exactly what many parents feel. The practice of the policy is flawed, but that is as nothi...
The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Lifelong Learning (Angela Constance) SNP
Will Liz Smith take an intervention?
Liz Smith Con
I will continue for a minute, if I may. Perhaps the cabinet secretary can answer this point. The essential trust that is the crucial ingredient on which to ...
Angela Constance SNP
How do we assess the needs of a child? Do we assess all children in a fair and professional manner or do we make some lazy assumptions about which children a...
Liz Smith Con
I think that some teachers in our schools might take great exception to what the cabinet secretary has just said. They are professionals who are trained to d...
The Minister for Children and Young People (Aileen Campbell) SNP
I am proud that this Parliament took the groundbreaking Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill through the Parliament last year. The Children and Young Pe...
Annabel Goldie (West Scotland) (Con) Con
Will the minister simply specify what, at the moment, precludes authorities from intervening where they believe a child to be at risk?
Aileen Campbell SNP
We have child protection laws in place, but the system that we are talking about has been proven to demonstrate good, positive outcomes for children, which M...
Ruth Davidson (Glasgow) (Con) Con
Will the minister give way?
Aileen Campbell SNP
Of course, if the member wants to talk about her article.
Ruth Davidson Con
Does the minister acknowledge that in that article I referred to the testimony of senior members of Scotland’s police force, which was that the approach will...
Aileen Campbell SNP
Police Scotland has been a full and constructive member of the GIRFEC programme board and has been supportive of the named person approach, as it said many t...
Liz Smith Con
Will the minister take an intervention?
Aileen Campbell SNP
I have taken two already; I must make progress. We cannot predict which mum might suffer post-natal depression or which family might suffer bereavement, and...
Iain Gray (East Lothian) (Lab) Lab
We often begin such debates by congratulating the relevant party on bringing it forward. I cannot do that today because this is a calculatedly unhelpful deba...
Liz Smith Con
Does Iain Gray approve of the Hopscotch play that has been taken around our primary schools?