Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 02 December 2015
02 Dec 2015 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Named Persons
The minister is perhaps getting a little uptight. Perhaps that is exactly what many parents feel.
The practice of the policy is flawed, but that is as nothing when we assess its fundamental principles. I choose my words carefully again in the light of the ruling that has been made. What is implicit in the proposal to have a named person for every child is the insistence that the state, rather than parents and families, has the primary obligation to look after children. That is entirely the wrong way round, because there are thousands of parents across Scotland who are doing a thoroughly good job. What right does the Scottish Government have to tell them that the state knows better? What on earth is the point of insisting that those families must have a named person on exactly the same basis as families who face genuine problems? The logic of that is completely lost.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith)
Lab
Before we start the debate, I need to remind members that legal proceedings are on-going in relation to the legislative competence of the named persons provi...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
Three years ago, when Parliament first debated in earnest the SNP’s plans to introduce named persons, concerns were raised across the chamber not just about ...
Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (Lab)
Lab
Will Liz Smith give way?
Liz Smith
Con
I ask Mr Chisholm to let me make a bit of progress. Of course those children need help, and of course every effort must be made to assist local authorities,...
Mark McDonald (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP)
SNP
Liz Smith will be aware of the pathfinder project in Highland Council’s area, the outcomes of which were a 75 per cent time saving for professionals, a 50 pe...
Liz Smith
Con
Mark McDonald will be aware that the conclusion of the pathfinder study was that there is no proof that those outcomes were due to the named person policy or...
The Minister for Learning, Science and Scotland’s Languages (Dr Alasdair Allan)
SNP
That assertion is disgraceful.
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
Order, please. We cannot have sedentary interventions.
Liz Smith
Con
No, it is not disgraceful. That is exactly what is happening in our schools. At the end of the day, and despite all the protestations that we are hearing ju...
Dr Allan
SNP
We have already heard about the example from Highland Council, which of course was using a system similar to the named person system prior to the pilot. Has ...
Liz Smith
Con
I have every kind of evidence. We have seen in the newspapers that many parents are fed up with being told what they have to agree to. The Scottish Governmen...
The Minister for Children and Young People (Aileen Campbell)
SNP
What element of SHANARRI does Liz Smith disagree with?
Liz Smith
Con
How on earth can the minister accept that SHANARRI is an acceptable way of assessing a child? Interruption.
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
Order, please. Minister, please stop shouting from a sedentary position.
Liz Smith
Con
The minister is perhaps getting a little uptight. Perhaps that is exactly what many parents feel. The practice of the policy is flawed, but that is as nothi...
The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Lifelong Learning (Angela Constance)
SNP
Will Liz Smith take an intervention?
Liz Smith
Con
I will continue for a minute, if I may. Perhaps the cabinet secretary can answer this point. The essential trust that is the crucial ingredient on which to ...
Angela Constance
SNP
How do we assess the needs of a child? Do we assess all children in a fair and professional manner or do we make some lazy assumptions about which children a...
Liz Smith
Con
I think that some teachers in our schools might take great exception to what the cabinet secretary has just said. They are professionals who are trained to d...
The Minister for Children and Young People (Aileen Campbell)
SNP
I am proud that this Parliament took the groundbreaking Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill through the Parliament last year. The Children and Young Pe...
Annabel Goldie (West Scotland) (Con)
Con
Will the minister simply specify what, at the moment, precludes authorities from intervening where they believe a child to be at risk?
Aileen Campbell
SNP
We have child protection laws in place, but the system that we are talking about has been proven to demonstrate good, positive outcomes for children, which M...
Ruth Davidson (Glasgow) (Con)
Con
Will the minister give way?
Aileen Campbell
SNP
Of course, if the member wants to talk about her article.
Ruth Davidson
Con
Does the minister acknowledge that in that article I referred to the testimony of senior members of Scotland’s police force, which was that the approach will...
Aileen Campbell
SNP
Police Scotland has been a full and constructive member of the GIRFEC programme board and has been supportive of the named person approach, as it said many t...
Liz Smith
Con
Will the minister take an intervention?
Aileen Campbell
SNP
I have taken two already; I must make progress. We cannot predict which mum might suffer post-natal depression or which family might suffer bereavement, and...
Iain Gray (East Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
We often begin such debates by congratulating the relevant party on bringing it forward. I cannot do that today because this is a calculatedly unhelpful deba...
Liz Smith
Con
Does Iain Gray approve of the Hopscotch play that has been taken around our primary schools?