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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 02 December 2015

02 Dec 2015 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Named Persons
Smith, Liz Con Mid Scotland and Fife Watch on SPTV

Mark McDonald will be aware that the conclusion of the pathfinder study was that there is no proof that those outcomes were due to the named person policy or to the getting it right for every child policy. There is no conclusive evidence of that whatsoever. That is exactly what the Education and Culture Committee said.

The police are not alone in raising concerns about workload. Greg Dempster of the Association of Heads and Deputes in Scotland said at the Education and Culture Committee only two weeks ago that the policy is probably the single biggest paperwork burden that is placed on headteachers in our schools, and here is why. When they assess children, teachers have to deal with no fewer than 306 different criteria in the safe, healthy, achieving, nurtured, active, respected, responsible and included—or SHANARRI—indices. That is one of the essential problems with the policy.

When the Finance Committee scrutinised the financial burdens, it made it clear that despite Aileen Campbell’s assurances in a parliamentary answer on 27 June 2014 that the financial memorandum sets out the full costs of the policy, it did not believe that the policy had been properly costed. That is also clearly set out in the Scottish Parliament information centre’s briefing. My colleague Gavin Brown will say more about this, but the Finance Committee was not persuaded by the Scottish Government’s assertion that the £26 million cost to schools, local authorities and health boards for 2016-17 would diminish much year on year, given that there has to be on-going training and that there must be paperwork for every child in the system. That is exactly what yesterday’s guidance from the Scottish Government said, and what has been confirmed today by the Royal College of Nursing.

In recent months, the Scottish Government has gone on a major charm offensive to persuade parents that all is well and that the named person policy is really in the best interests of everyone. First, there was the Hampden initiative, at which parents could turn up for a family day out, with a £25 gift voucher thrown in, to persuade them of the policy’s merit and so that they could find out all that they wanted to know. Then we had the SHANARRI wheel of wellbeing diagrams, which were a vain exercise and an example of just exactly what is wrong with the named person policy. Now we have a Hopscotch Theatre Company play starring Mr SHANARRI and Miss GIRFEC being taken around primary schools.

Every time someone criticises the initiatives, the Scottish Government goes on the defensive and argues that there is actually no compulsion on parents to accept any advice from named persons—it says that despite its having persistently refused all amendments to the Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill that would have permitted an opt-out. The Government knows full well, though, that the professionals are not permitted to opt out. Common sense tells us that if the professionals cannot opt out, neither can the parents because they are inextricably linked, when it comes to the adoption of a named person policy. That was admitted by an Inverness primary school headteacher who was asked on “The Kaye Adams Programme” on the BBC what she would do if parents said that they do not want a named person. She replied that it would be her job to persuade them otherwise.

The requirement for full co-operation and positive engagement with the professionals’ viewpoint is further illustrated with the inclusion in the risk indicators of whether a parent is resisting or limiting engagement, or whether a parent has a completely different perception of the problem. Clearly, parents can choose not to engage and not to accept the advice of a named person, but the consequences of doing that are that they will—let us be honest—be seen as endangering the wellbeing of their child, because they will be picked upon as being parents who are not worthy. [Interruption.]

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith) Lab
Before we start the debate, I need to remind members that legal proceedings are on-going in relation to the legislative competence of the named persons provi...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
Three years ago, when Parliament first debated in earnest the SNP’s plans to introduce named persons, concerns were raised across the chamber not just about ...
Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (Lab) Lab
Will Liz Smith give way?
Liz Smith Con
I ask Mr Chisholm to let me make a bit of progress. Of course those children need help, and of course every effort must be made to assist local authorities,...
Mark McDonald (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) SNP
Liz Smith will be aware of the pathfinder project in Highland Council’s area, the outcomes of which were a 75 per cent time saving for professionals, a 50 pe...
Liz Smith Con
Mark McDonald will be aware that the conclusion of the pathfinder study was that there is no proof that those outcomes were due to the named person policy or...
The Minister for Learning, Science and Scotland’s Languages (Dr Alasdair Allan) SNP
That assertion is disgraceful.
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Order, please. We cannot have sedentary interventions.
Liz Smith Con
No, it is not disgraceful. That is exactly what is happening in our schools. At the end of the day, and despite all the protestations that we are hearing ju...
Dr Allan SNP
We have already heard about the example from Highland Council, which of course was using a system similar to the named person system prior to the pilot. Has ...
Liz Smith Con
I have every kind of evidence. We have seen in the newspapers that many parents are fed up with being told what they have to agree to. The Scottish Governmen...
The Minister for Children and Young People (Aileen Campbell) SNP
What element of SHANARRI does Liz Smith disagree with?
Liz Smith Con
How on earth can the minister accept that SHANARRI is an acceptable way of assessing a child? Interruption.
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Order, please. Minister, please stop shouting from a sedentary position.
Liz Smith Con
The minister is perhaps getting a little uptight. Perhaps that is exactly what many parents feel. The practice of the policy is flawed, but that is as nothi...
The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Lifelong Learning (Angela Constance) SNP
Will Liz Smith take an intervention?
Liz Smith Con
I will continue for a minute, if I may. Perhaps the cabinet secretary can answer this point. The essential trust that is the crucial ingredient on which to ...
Angela Constance SNP
How do we assess the needs of a child? Do we assess all children in a fair and professional manner or do we make some lazy assumptions about which children a...
Liz Smith Con
I think that some teachers in our schools might take great exception to what the cabinet secretary has just said. They are professionals who are trained to d...
The Minister for Children and Young People (Aileen Campbell) SNP
I am proud that this Parliament took the groundbreaking Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill through the Parliament last year. The Children and Young Pe...
Annabel Goldie (West Scotland) (Con) Con
Will the minister simply specify what, at the moment, precludes authorities from intervening where they believe a child to be at risk?
Aileen Campbell SNP
We have child protection laws in place, but the system that we are talking about has been proven to demonstrate good, positive outcomes for children, which M...
Ruth Davidson (Glasgow) (Con) Con
Will the minister give way?
Aileen Campbell SNP
Of course, if the member wants to talk about her article.
Ruth Davidson Con
Does the minister acknowledge that in that article I referred to the testimony of senior members of Scotland’s police force, which was that the approach will...
Aileen Campbell SNP
Police Scotland has been a full and constructive member of the GIRFEC programme board and has been supportive of the named person approach, as it said many t...
Liz Smith Con
Will the minister take an intervention?
Aileen Campbell SNP
I have taken two already; I must make progress. We cannot predict which mum might suffer post-natal depression or which family might suffer bereavement, and...
Iain Gray (East Lothian) (Lab) Lab
We often begin such debates by congratulating the relevant party on bringing it forward. I cannot do that today because this is a calculatedly unhelpful deba...
Liz Smith Con
Does Iain Gray approve of the Hopscotch play that has been taken around our primary schools?