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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 01 December 2015

01 Dec 2015 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Health (Tobacco, Nicotine etc and Care) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Chisholm, Malcolm Lab Edinburgh Northern and Leith Watch on SPTV

The committee will look into that issue and the complexities of the process. That certainly needs to be looked at.

The need for a register is widely accepted. The Health and Sport Committee said that there should be a register for all age-restricted products, whereas Linda Bauld thought that there should be separate registers. It is interesting that Cancer Research UK does not want e-cigarettes to be on the register at all because it is concerned to separate cigarettes from e-cigarettes.

The Independent Scientific Committee on Drugs has drawn on the work of experts from several countries and concluded that e-cigarettes are 95 per cent less harmful than normal cigarettes. Let us look at what the experts are saying.

Being particularly interested in health inequalities, I note that e-cigarettes also have an important role in reducing those. The people in society who smoke are disproportionately those from more disadvantaged backgrounds. E-cigarettes can also help in that regard.

I move on to smoking in hospital grounds. I do not support the banning of e-cigarettes in hospital grounds, but I believe that normal cigarettes should be banned there, and I support the proposals in the bill. It is interesting that Action on Smoking and Health supports the Health and Sport Committee’s recommendation that individual health boards should propose the legally enforceable perimeter. I am sure that that will be discussed more at stage 2.

As we have heard, under the proposed duty of candour, if a person experiences unintended harm, the organisation involved will have a duty to tell that person, support them, review the situation and apologise. In the committee, it was interesting to note who supports the proposed duty. We have heard about those who do not support it or who questioned it, but Unison and Marie Curie, for example, supported it because they said that it would drive culture change and support a culture of learning and improvement. The committee supported it in principle.

When some of us from the committee visited Ardgowan hospice in Greenock, the interesting point was made that some people might not want to know. That is why we should have an amendment that introduces the English arrangement whereby somebody is told that there is something to report but is given the right to say that they do not want to know. That is the way to proceed, rather than in a paternalistic way. People must be told that there is something to report, but they must have the right to say that they do not want to know. We should have an amendment to that effect at stage 2. We also need clear guidance on the triggers for the duty of candour and a programme of awareness raising, training and support.

An offence of ill treatment and wilful neglect has, interestingly, been in mental health legislation since 1913, but the issue has arisen more recently because of the Mid Staffordshire inquiry and the Francis report. We will be putting something into law that is already in English health legislation. The difference between the offence and the duty of candour is that the offence refers to something that is deliberate. The duty of candour is to do with unintended harm, but ill treatment and wilful neglect are in a completely different category. Some members have talked about their worries over the interaction between the new criminal offence and the duty of candour. However, the reality is that there should be no such interaction, because they will deal with quite different categories.

As with the duty of candour, it is important that we have guidance in particular on how the new offence will sit alongside existing processes and procedures. Some members have made the point that there are already processes and procedures to prevent ill treatment and wilful neglect. The committee asked for further information on training, support and education in that regard.

Basically, the committee supports the bill, and I certainly do. To go back to where I started—on e-cigarettes—although there is quite a big difference between those who are more positive about e-cigarettes and those who are more cautious about them, it is interesting that most members support the bill’s provisions on them, although there might be some argument about the details.

In general terms, I support the bill, including the provisions on e-cigarettes. However, we need to put out a clear message about the evidence on e-cigarettes and their potential to stop people smoking and reduce health inequalities.

15:27  

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-15003, in the name of Maureen Watt, on the Health (Tobacco, Nicotine etc and Care) (Scotland) Bill. Membe...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott) Con
I call Maureen Watt. You have 14 minutes. You can start as soon as you are ready, Ms Watt. 14:31
The Minister for Public Health (Maureen Watt) SNP
I am delighted to open the stage 1 debate on the principles of the Health (Tobacco, Nicotine etc and Care) (Scotland) Bill. I thank the Health and Sport Comm...
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) SNP
Can the minister give us an indication whether any patients who are smokers have signed themselves out of hospital early because they have been unable to smo...
Maureen Watt SNP
I am not aware of that happening. If the member has evidence of that happening, I am happy to look into it. Obviously, I hope that patients would discuss the...
Jenny Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Will the minister give way?
Maureen Watt SNP
I have to make progress. If the member wants to ask me a question during her speech, I will happily answer it when I am closing. Key to this will be the org...
Duncan McNeil (Greenock and Inverclyde) (Lab) Lab
At one time there were adverts to promote cigarettes showing Ronald Reagan giving them as Christmas gifts or Superman jumping out of a helicopter, but long g...
Jenny Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I will begin by clarifying a question that I want to ask the minister, just so that she is clear from the outset, as I would very much like an answer in her ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
I let the open debate speakers know that, at the moment, I will probably be able to give them all up to seven minutes. 15:04
Nanette Milne (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
The Scottish Government bill that we are discussing today makes three very important proposals: the development of policies around tobacco, nicotine and smok...
Maureen Watt SNP
The member will of course know that, in many cases, the Government’s response does not come out before the stage 1 debate and that the reply to the stage 1 r...
Nanette Milne Con
I accept the minister’s explanation but, having sat all day yesterday waiting to get the response, I would probably have been better just to ignore the infor...
Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) SNP
In relation to apologies, does the member welcome, as I do, section 23(2), which makes it clear that the offering of an apology, a statement of sorrow or reg...
Nanette Milne Con
I agree with the member on that. I would be very concerned if that was not stated in the bill. A similar lack of definition is cited by opponents of the pro...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
We now move to the open debate. We have a bit of time in hand, so members each have seven minutes or thereby. 15:12
Stewart Maxwell (West Scotland) (SNP) SNP
I am glad to be given the opportunity to speak in today’s debate on the Health (Tobacco, Nicotine etc and Care) (Scotland) Bill. As members are aware, the bi...
Kevin Stewart SNP
Mr Maxwell quoted Public Health England, which in its review states that smoking prevalence has declined in adults and young people since e-cigarettes were i...
Stewart Maxwell SNP
I disagree with the comments of my esteemed colleague from Aberdeen. We can see a pattern over the years in how tobacco companies have tried to get new marke...
Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (Lab) Lab
We all support the Scottish Government’s ambitious target to reduce smoking prevalence to 5 per cent by 2034, but the simple fact is that we are not making n...
Maureen Watt SNP
Mr Chisholm will know that, for the NHS to recommend NVPs as a smoking cessation product, they would have to be licensed. E-cigarette companies have not aske...
Malcolm Chisholm Lab
The committee will look into that issue and the complexities of the process. That certainly needs to be looked at. The need for a register is widely accepte...
Kenneth Gibson (Cunninghame North) (SNP) SNP
Since becoming an MSP, I have taken a keen interest in reducing the harm that smoking causes. In July 2001, I proposed a regulation of smoking bill, with the...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
I am at a loss for words. I call Hanzala Malik, to be followed by Kevin Stewart. 15:34
Hanzala Malik (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Thank you, Presiding Officer, and good afternoon to you. When speaking in today’s stage 1 debate on the Health (Tobacco, Nicotine etc and Care) (Scotland) B...
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) SNP
First, the confession: I was a smoker. I started smoking when I was 14, and not because of advertising or parental influence—my parents did not smoke. There ...
Jim Hume (South Scotland) (LD) LD
We should congratulate all the Health and Sport Committee’s members—and the clerks, of course—for all their hard work on the committee report. We are again l...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
I welcome the progress that has been made on smoking by the Scottish Parliament, including members here present. When it comes to smoking, we need to strike...
Dennis Robertson (Aberdeenshire West) (SNP) SNP
There has been a lot of focus on part 1 of the bill, and I make no apology for focusing a lot of my attention on it, too. It is interesting to hear confessi...
Stewart Stevenson SNP
Are we correct to use the word “choice”? Where addictions are concerned, it is precisely the case that choice is absent because that health issue denies peop...