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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 25 November 2015

25 Nov 2015 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Clyde and Hebrides Ferry Services

That was exactly the same position that Fergus Ewing used to take when he sat in the same chair making a different legal argument and using different criteria. The Altmark case was highlighted at that time, too. I take the point about the passage of time, but—I know that this is not particularly helpful to Mr Stewart—whoever the Government minister is, they will have to take legal advice on the basis of those cases and they will then have to act on that. No Government of any political persuasion can knowingly seek to break the law. If Mr Stewart was a transport minister, I do not think that he would do anything other than what Mr Mackay is doing right now.

The important point is that, if we wish to set up a tender and make it as tight as possible, that is perfectly possible. Mr Stewart will know well, as he is a Highlands and Islands MSP, that Serco runs our services to Orkney and Shetland and it is the same skippers, crew and people who work on those services and are on those boats today. They provide a very good service and work very hard on behalf of local people.

One of the most enjoyable days that I spent as a transport minister was with CalMac crews on the Sound of Sleat and the Sound of Harris. I have the utmost respect for the crews. I read the piece in The Herald today from a retiring skipper, whom I recognised. I absolutely reflect all his concerns about the future, but that is why the Government simply has to ensure—as Mr Mackay said, in fairness—the importance, fluidity and transparency of the tendering procedure to protect pensions, terms and conditions and the other things that Labour members have rightly highlighted in the motion.

I move amendment S4M-14942.2, to leave out from “and may be privatised” to end and insert:

“; believes that EU law requires the £1 billion Clyde and Hebrides Ferry Services 2016-24 contract to be tendered; recalls that the previous Labour/Liberal Democrat administration came to the same conclusion after investigating alternatives during the second session of the Parliament; notes that a subsequent European Commission state aid investigation has since reaffirmed this; recalls that a Labour/Liberal Democrat administration motion, which gained the approval of the Parliament on 14 September 2005, stated ‘that the tendering of the Clyde and Hebrides lifeline ferry services is required to protect these vital services’, while the SNP conversely argued during that debate that it ‘does not believe that tendering is necessary’; understands that, irrespective of which company wins the 2016-24 contract, ministers will maintain control of routes, services, timetables and fares, and vessels and harbours will stay in public ownership, and considers that the negotiation of a robust contract could ensure that jobs, staff terms and conditions are also protected.”

15:08  
References in this contribution

Motions, questions or amendments mentioned by their reference code.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott) Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-14942, in the name of David Stewart, on keeping CalMac public. Before we start the debate, I remind membe...
David Stewart (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Lab
As a lifelong trade unionist, I warmly welcome to the gallery this afternoon officials and members representing CalMac Ferries and beyond. I would ask all me...
Chic Brodie (South Scotland) (SNP) SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
David Stewart Lab
Not now. I will take an intervention from the member later. Let us not forget that CalMac has run the Clyde and Hebrides ferry routes at profit in every yea...
Mike MacKenzie (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
David Stewart Lab
Not now. As the West Highland Free Press said: “Serco is not a shipping company. It is a multi-faceted specialist in outsourcing which exists to exploit th...
Chic Brodie SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
David Stewart Lab
Not now. We know how the model works: the Tories privatise an asset; Serco bids to manage the asset; it then cuts the service to the bone and posts a handso...
Chic Brodie SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
David Stewart Lab
Not at this point. In a parliamentary question in June this year, I asked the transport minister whether he had raised the Teckal exemption with the Europea...
The Minister for Transport and Islands (Derek Mackay) SNP
If David Stewart cared to expand on the answer that I gave him, members would hear that the Teckal exemption is irrelevant because the maritime cabotage regu...
David Stewart Lab
I note what the minister says, and I might have some news for him and the Scottish National Party Government in my speech. Over the summer, I headed to Brus...
The Minister for Transport and Islands (Derek Mackay) SNP
I will begin on a point of consensus. Whatever my disagreement with David Stewart on the legal opinion or on matters of interpretation, and whatever disagree...
Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab) Lab
The minister says that the Scottish Government wants publicly owned ferry services. Does he think that a private company can deliver a publicly owned service...
Derek Mackay SNP
As a consequence of our designing the tender process, we will continue to own the vessels and to set fares and timetables. In that sense, the services are st...
Sarah Boyack (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
At what point will the minister acknowledge not just Teckal’s existence but the fact that case law and the decisions taken on Teckal have changed the circums...
Derek Mackay SNP
The member knows that it is not practice to share legal advice with others, but a useful exercise over the summer considered the legal advice, and I am afrai...
David Stewart Lab
Will the minister give way?
Derek Mackay SNP
Of course.
David Stewart Lab
I understand the minister’s point, but does he understand that it is in his power today to enforce the 2014 EU procurement directives, which make it easier t...
Derek Mackay SNP
David Stewart keeps on returning to the matter of legal opinion. It is our opinion that we have to undertake the process—there is no escaping it. Within the ...
Alex Johnstone (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
Any student of politics of any duration who looked in on today’s debate would obviously be inspired by the nature of the debate so far—although they might ge...
Johann Lamont Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Alex Johnstone Con
No, thank you—not at the moment. That affection for CalMac is genuine because so many people who depend on its services know that CalMac is the provider. On...
Sarah Boyack Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Ind) Ind
Will the member give way?
Alex Johnstone Con
No, thank you. We must get a handle on the cost of ferry services. We support in principle the notion that the Government advanced of the road equivalent ta...
Derek Mackay SNP
Does the member not accept that that is partly to do with the very aim that I have suggested—that of safeguarding the lifeline services and not having them p...
Alex Johnstone Con
That would have been the effect had the services been completely unbundled but, as the Government and the minister know, the services could have been partly ...
Tavish Scott (Shetland Islands) (LD) LD
I say to Mr Johnstone that the truth is that we lost a vote, as one or two colleagues on the far benches will well remember. Back in 2005, lots of Labour col...