Committee
Environment and Rural Development Committee, 06 Dec 2006
06 Dec 2006 · S2 · Environment and Rural Development Committee
Item of business
European Issues
Let us be clear: the dispute over nephrops is not among people in the European Commission but among the scientists. That is probably more concerning. Like everybody, including the fishermen, we accepted in good faith that the STECF findings last year were accepted by the Commission and implemented. The findings appeared to show not only that the stock was healthy, but that it was being fished sustainably.I am as surprised and disappointed as you are that this disagreement has arisen over both the methodology and the final outcome. However, never mind you and me, our fishermen are surprised and disappointed too. As I said in my opening remarks, when we heard of the dispute we employed our scientists from Fisheries Research Services and other marine institutes in Scotland to probe into it. We understand that they made very effective presentations but we do not yet know the outcomes; the detail was lost in the smoke of yesterday's controversial, provocative and confrontational announcement. However, I have not lost hope that scientific arguments will resolve the issues.In relation to haddock, there is no dispute. The increase in total allowable catch that was agreed at the EU-Norway talks is entirely consistent with the scientific advice and with the application of the modifications that were made to the haddock management plan. The outcome of the talks is therefore entirely consistent with the scientific advice. Nobody in the Commission or elsewhere is suggesting that the state of the haddock stock per se is unhealthy.The committee is as aware as I am that the difficulty arises when we come to fishing effort. I refer to proposals that are made for 25 per cent cuts of effort in cod. As everyone in Scotland knows perfectly well, even if we are not targeting cod, in fishing areas where cod is present, we catch it as a bycatch. The perennial difficulty lies in trying to get a management agreement on effort that people understand impacts adversely on our haddock fishery. That combination of events is the issue, rather than anyone in the Commission, the Parliament, or the scientific community having a fundamental disagreement on nephrops or other catches. That is the answer to the question.
In the same item of business
The Convener:
Lab
Our third and final agenda item is consideration of European Union issues. In particular, we will consider the December 2006 meeting of the agriculture and f...
The Minister for Environment and Rural Development (Ross Finnie):
LD
I am glad to have an opportunity to comment on European Union issues. The next meeting of the environment council will take place on 18 December and the agri...
The Convener:
Lab
Because of the issues on the agenda and those that we have talked about before, I suggest that we deal with fishing issues first, with questions from round t...
Richard Lochhead (Moray) (SNP):
SNP
The minister will be aware that thousands of families are anxiously awaiting the outcome of December's talks. Every year the minister says that one of his ai...
Ross Finnie:
LD
Let us be clear: the dispute over nephrops is not among people in the European Commission but among the scientists. That is probably more concerning. Like ev...
Richard Lochhead:
SNP
Your briefing paper states:"the Commission has staked its credibility as a fisheries manager on the recovery of cod."Reading between the lines, one can see a...
Ross Finnie:
LD
On the first point, there is no doubt at all that the approach that was adopted yesterday is disappointing. The provisions of article 8 of the cod recovery p...
Mr Alasdair Morrison (Western Isles) (Lab):
Lab
I think that Mr Finnie is now Europe's longest-serving and most experienced fisheries minister. I was relieved that he put the management of fish stocks into...
Ross Finnie:
LD
We have already made submissions on the matter. As soon as we picked up that there was disagreement—which was before it became public—we quickly engaged with...
Mr Morrison:
Lab
The minister knows that conservation-led measures must underpin our thinking and actions. As I said, you have been in your job for a great number of years. W...
Ross Finnie:
LD
Those are good questions. I have no doubt that we needed a more sustainable fishery in general. Moving towards such a fishery has involved decisions that hav...
Mr Brocklebank:
Con
The minister will be delighted to hear that I do not propose to go over old arguments and old ground. I will try to stick with whatever positive aspects I ca...
Ross Finnie:
LD
There is no agreement to take back anything. There is no agreement to change mesh sizes in the prawn fishery, to use a grid in the nets—I will come back to t...
Mr Brocklebank:
Con
I was referring to the fact that there are proposals for reductions in catching effort for both mesh sizes.
Ross Finnie:
LD
Indeed. Let me extend that argument. There is a clear case that I will wish to prosecute with regard to the effect that that will have on us. The non-Scottis...
Mr Brocklebank:
Con
I have one further question relating to your previous appearance at the committee. I think that you said then that there were still attempts by certain count...
Ross Finnie:
LD
The financial instrument for fisheries guidance management agreement has finished and the European fisheries fund will come into play. We were successful in ...
The Convener:
Lab
What is the current estimate of overcapacity in fleets in other countries?
Ross Finnie:
LD
It is difficult to say, as they are different fisheries. The Dutch and the Danes have been more open about discussing the need for decommissioning. Both the ...
Eleanor Scott:
Green
As you mentioned, we have a mixed fishery in Scotland. It is clear that, whatever the target species is, a lot of different stuff comes up in the nets. It is...
Ross Finnie:
LD
There has been discussion of closed areas, but not for about two years. Quite a bit of work was done on closed areas by the Commission and others, and we, in...
Eleanor Scott:
Green
Would fishermen be in favour of closed areas?
Ross Finnie:
LD
We are all interested in measures that would make the process more rational. Whereas in theory it would be great to have areas in which fishermen could opera...
Eleanor Scott:
Green
The thought was that the fishermen would be well aware of where the spawning grounds were and so on.
Ross Finnie:
LD
Yes, indeed. All those issues were fed into discussions—well, not all of them, because the matter was not pursued as far as it might have been. The issue has...
Frank Strang (Scottish Executive Environment and Rural Affairs Department):
One of the important issues with discards is to know the facts. One of our priorities this year will be to ensure that all member states provide discards dat...
Eleanor Scott:
Green
Can you get reliable data on that?
Frank Strang:
We are saying that not every member state provides reliable data, which is one of our priorities.
Rob Gibson:
SNP
What is the minister's understanding of cod stocks? Are there more cod in Scottish waters this year than there were last year?
Ross Finnie:
LD
There might be. No scientist appears to disagree about the sightings of juvenile cod—I made it pretty clear that scientist observers on vessels have reported...