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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 11 November 2015

11 Nov 2015 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Energy Storage Network
Don, Nigel SNP Angus North and Mearns Watch on SPTV

I, too, thank Mike MacKenzie for bringing this important debate to us. I also thank him for the history lesson about Tom Johnston. I have a family connection to that, because my grandfather was one of the civil engineers who did some of the heavy lifting, so to speak, in the work that was done on hydroelectric power stations across Scotland in times past.

We all know that renewable energy is intermittent. It is not just that the wind does not always blow; although tides come and go, there are long slack periods in between. We readily recognise that storage is part of a power system.

I suspect that most MSPs have been to briefings by National Grid, so we know fine well that it is used to the idea of having to buy spare capacity and pay over the odds for it at peak times. National Grid has also bought opportunities to reduce demand, as has been pointed out—Joan McAlpine commented on that.

However, I do not recall National Grid ever talking about storage in any of our briefings. If it did so, storage was very much the Cinderella issue. Storage has obviously been somewhat off National Grid’s radar, too, but it will have to come on to that radar. That is partly for reasons that members have mentioned and which I will not repeat, and partly because of a point that I do not think has been mentioned yet, which is that, although we have all spent our time talking about renewable electricity generation, the biggest part of our energy demand is for heat for domestic and business purposes.

If we are to use renewable energy to meet the heat demand, we will have to generate a great deal more electricity, but we will have to get it to where the heating is required and—this is the crucial bit—make sure that it is available when the heating is required, which might well be in the evenings and overnight rather than during the day, when the electricity might have been generated. Storage is therefore a crucial part of getting the heat balance across Scotland in connection with renewables.

We have always known that standard generating power stations waste heat. We have all seen the enormous cooling towers and wondered why they were there, but the laws of thermodynamics demand that they are there. If those power stations had been built in the middle of our big cities, we would not have needed the cooling towers, because we could have used the waste heat to warm our houses. District heating systems in various places have been known to do that.

That brings me to my next point, which is that we should store energy where it will be useful as heat. Many storage systems generate waste heat and, if we can use that for district heating, that must be far more efficient in overall energy terms.

If we can take energy out of the sky through wind turbines, the cost of that energy will not be terribly great but, given that we have to put enormous amounts of capital into the ground and then into the wires that move the energy around, we want to have efficient systems. That is why it is important that we get our storage in the right place. It needs to be distributed, but that means that compressed air, liquid air and flywheel storage, which are in themselves relatively inefficient, can become more efficient if they are put in the right place. The waste is always heat but, if we can collect that and put it into a district heating system, it ceases to be wasted and becomes useful heat.

That point adds to the complexity of what is already a complex enough problem. I am grateful to Mike MacKenzie for bringing it before us.

17:41  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith) Lab
The final item of business today is a members’ business debate on motion S4M-14440, in the name of Mike MacKenzie, on the energy storage network. The debate ...
Mike MacKenzie (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) SNP
I am pleased to have secured this debate in order to shine a light on energy storage, because energy storage is an often forgotten and sometimes undervalued ...
Michael Russell (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) SNP
It would be useful for the member to know that the admiration for Tom Johnston spreads across the chamber. I seem to remember that a portrait of Tom Johnston...
Mike MacKenzie SNP
I am grateful to Mr Russell for that information. I had not realised that Tom Johnston’s portrait was in Bute house. In Tom Johnston’s wisdom he recognised ...
Alex Salmond (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) SNP
Tom Johnston also tried to exterminate the Scots midge, but that was less successful. The point that I was going to make was that he took emergency legislati...
Mike MacKenzie SNP
I am very grateful to Mr Salmond for that further information. Like midges, a lot of small Scotsmen are equally difficult to exterminate. Energy storage is ...
Sarah Boyack (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
I thank Mike MacKenzie and congratulate him on securing the debate. It might not look like the most exciting issue that we will debate this week, but it is p...
Joan McAlpine (South Scotland) (SNP) SNP
I, too, congratulate my friend Mike MacKenzie on securing this important and timely debate. Last year, I was delighted to host an event in Parliament with H...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
You need to close, please.
Joan McAlpine SNP
I am just finishing. During last week’s crisis, the price that National Grid paid to some generators reached £2,500 per megawatt hour when it is normally £5...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
I must now ask members to keep to four minutes. Even if they do so, given the number of members who still wish to speak in the debate I am minded to accept a...
Alex Johnstone (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
One of the first things that I was ever taught in a science class was that energy can never be created or destroyed; it can only be changed from one form to ...
Claudia Beamish (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Does the member agree that the kind of pumped storage scheme that I see on the Falls of Clyde and across Scotland is a much better model than the centralised...
Alex Johnstone Con
I might have time later to get on to the subject of diversity of energy sources, which is something that I believe in. The other point that I wanted to make...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Please close.
Alex Johnstone Con
If we fail to be diverse in our energy sources, we run a much greater risk of that power not coming on. 17:28
David Torrance (Kirkcaldy) (SNP) SNP
First of all, Presiding Officer, I must apologise to you and Mike MacKenzie for not being able to stay until the end of the debate. I thank Mike MacKenzie f...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
I, too, congratulate Mike MacKenzie on securing this important debate and I join him in acknowledging and welcoming the work that Scottish Renewables has don...
Nigel Don (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) SNP
I, too, thank Mike MacKenzie for bringing this important debate to us. I also thank him for the history lesson about Tom Johnston. I have a family connection...
Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) SNP
Other members have mentioned Tom Johnston, but one key aspiration that he had has not yet been referred to. He imagined that, with the building of hydroelect...
The Minister for Business, Energy and Tourism (Fergus Ewing) SNP
It has been an excellent debate, and I thank Mike MacKenzie for securing it. I very much welcome the Scottish Renewables paper “Energy Storage: The Basics”...
Sarah Boyack Lab
Will the minister take an intervention?
Fergus Ewing SNP
I would really like to make these points. I am very sorry but I need to make progress. That expert group should comprise senior officials and it should be s...