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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 11 November 2015

11 Nov 2015 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Succession (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Stevenson, Stewart SNP Banffshire and Buchan Coast Watch on SPTV

This is an interesting bill, which we have been dealing with in the DPLR Committee. I will address my remarks to the rectification provisions in sections 3 and 4.

In particular, I note that the minister said, as reported in paragraph 73 of the committee’s report, that we are looking at the grounds for rectification being only when what the testator has wanted and has clearly expressed as being wanted is not reflected in the will.

The minister also said:

“We will continue to reflect on whether software could be considered as constituting a third party.”—[Official Report, Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee, 29 September 2015; c 7.]

That refers to where software contributes to the misrepresentation in a resulting will of the intentions that were clearly stated by the testator. The important point is that we have to consider what is done with software, which is quite different from using electronic means to fill in the blanks in a template with one’s intentions. In that case, the intention of the testator is directly keyed, through the keyboard, into the resulting document without any intermediate computer, computer programmer or computer program operation.

Thinking about the matter further, I note that there is clearly a third party when a computer program is involved, because there is the programmer who produced the program. All computer programs are similar in that it is impossible to guarantee a computer program, however simple it may be, to be free from potential error under some circumstances. Even though the testator might have keyed only, “I wish to leave all my assets to my spouse”, for example, it is still perfectly possible for a computer program to scramble that and misspell “spouse”, for the sake of argument. The resulting document would therefore require rectification in order to give effect to the testator’s intention. I think that we have to take account of that.

The difficulty that a court is likely to have to wrestle with is whether there is something that would give clear insight into what the testator’s intentions were. If the testator just keys some data into a computer program, there will be no clear record of the testator’s intentions unless what is keyed in is preserved for examination at a later date.

One of the aspects that we might address that is outwith the legislation but related to it is seeking to provide advice to those who produce automated systems for producing wills that are drawn up by computer programs about the need to preserve directly the testator’s input so that it is possible to examine whether the operation of the computer program has taken the testator’s stated intentions as expressed through the keyboard and produced a will that is different from those intentions.

I think that that lies at the heart of what we would almost certainly need to do. The Government could help those who draw up such programs by making that point and perhaps setting it down as the test that the courts might apply.

It has been an interesting bill to scrutinise. In particular, there is the fiction in section 12—on forfeiture—that means that, if someone murders the person from whom they are due to inherit, that “offender”, although physically still living, is legally dead. That is an exciting and engaging prospect. I look forward to the subsequent stages of the bill.

15:09  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith) Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-14768, in the name of Paul Wheelhouse, on the Succession (Scotland) Bill. 14:40
The Minister for Community Safety and Legal Affairs (Paul Wheelhouse) SNP
I am pleased to open the debate on the Succession (Scotland) Bill. I thank those who submitted evidence, and I thank the convener, members and clerks of the ...
Nigel Don (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) SNP
I welcome the opportunity to speak on behalf of the Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee on the Succession (Scotland) Bill. This is a Scottish Law Commi...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Could you draw to a close, please?
Nigel Don SNP
Although the reforms in the bill are technical and comparatively uncontroversial, they represent very important and necessary changes to succession law. More...
Elaine Murray (Dumfriesshire) (Lab) Lab
As has been said, this bill was not considered by the Justice Committee, and I was completely unaware of its provisions until last week. I have not read thro...
John Scott (Ayr) (Con) Con
I, too, am pleased to be participating in this stage 1 debate on the Succession (Scotland) Bill. I thank the Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee’s con...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
We now move to the short open debate, with speeches of a maximum of four minutes. 15:05
Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) SNP
This is an interesting bill, which we have been dealing with in the DPLR Committee. I will address my remarks to the rectification provisions in sections 3 a...
Richard Baker (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Although the bill is technical in nature, I agree with other members’ view that it is important. All of us, inside or outside the chamber, want to be assured...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Will you draw to a close, please?
Richard Baker Lab
The bill should certainly be supported at stage 1 today.
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
We turn to the closing speeches. 15:13
John Scott Con
I thank members for a good debate this afternoon. It is clear that there is a great deal of consensus in the Parliament and I am pleased that the Scottish La...
Graeme Pearson (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Labour supports the approach that has been taken at stage 1. Wills and inheritance are an important issue and I am grateful to Nigel Don and the DPLR Committ...
Stewart Stevenson SNP
The member talks about keeping up with modern developments. Does he welcome, as I think I do, the abolition of the Parricide Act 1594, because it means that ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
I am afraid that you are approaching your last minute, Mr Pearson.
Graeme Pearson Lab
Indeed. I accept Stewart Stevenson’s point. The Parricide Act was enacted in 1594, so it has taken us a while to reconsider the circumstances, but the decisi...
Paul Wheelhouse SNP
The spirit of this afternoon’s debate has served to highlight the value that the scrutiny of the Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee brings to the Scot...
Nigel Don SNP
On that point, I am conscious of the issue of common calamity, when we are not clear in which order people have died, and the risk that the estate will finis...
Paul Wheelhouse SNP
I take the member’s points on board. We are trying to deliver as much certainty as we can in the law of succession. I was going to turn in any case to the p...