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Committee

Justice Committee 29 September 2015

29 Sep 2015 · S4 · Justice Committee
Item of business
Criminal Justice (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
I am grateful for the comments that various committee members have made. The intention behind amendment 226 is not to pre-empt anything. Instead, it creates an enabling power to ensure that if, following the consultation as recommended by the advisory group, it is felt to be necessary to create the statutory provision for searching those under 18 for alcohol, the Parliament will have an opportunity to address the matter. The inherent danger and risk in not agreeing to this amendment and not taking forward the provision is that if, as a result of the consultation, a gap is identified and it is recommended that we have something to deal with it, we will have no legislative vehicle for pursuing that. I am open to the idea of exploring, between now and stage 3, whether there is a way in which the provision could be further reinforced. For example, Elaine Murray has suggested that the provision should be subject to a super-affirmative procedure and, if the committee is minded that it should be, I am more than content to explore that idea further between now and stage 3. That would give the Parliament additional oversight before any such power could be introduced. Nevertheless, I have serious concern about the possibility that we will conduct a consultation, as recommended by the advisory group, find that it identifies a legislative gap but then have no legislative vehicle with which to address that deficit in the law. If, during the course of the consultation, nothing is identified that would justify having such a statutory provision, we have the amendments that would create a sunset clause to remove the provision from the bill. We decided not to accept amendment 229A primarily because of the recommendations of the advisory group, which considered the issue closely and decided not to be prescriptive about what the code should contain. It provided a draft code with the recommendation that we should have a consultation on that draft code, and that is what we intend to do. To assist that process, the advisory group will remain in place, with John Scott heading it up and other members supporting the consultation exercise and the drafting of the code, which will eventually be brought before Parliament for its consideration. The key point is that, as Rod Campbell said, the code of practice must be laid before Parliament and Parliament will have the ultimate say over whether its content is correct. We have decided to reject amendment 52 because of the findings of the advisory group on the matter. In its report, the group highlights that the approach that Police Scotland currently takes on data has improved and, in recommendation 5, recommends that practical measures be taken on a regular basis by the SPA and Police Scotland to ensure that there is adequate openness and transparency. That recommendation will be fully implemented along with the other recommendations in the report. There is, therefore, no need to put anything in the bill to achieve that. Amendment 223 agreed to. Amendments 224 and 225 moved—Michael Matheson—and agreed to. Amendment 226 moved—Michael Matheson.

In the same item of business

The Convener SNP
Agenda item 2 is day 3 of stage 2 proceedings on the Criminal Justice (Scotland) Bill. I welcome to the meeting the Cabinet Secretary for Justice, Michael Ma...
The Convener SNP
Amendment 223, in the name of the cabinet secretary, is grouped with amendments 224 to 229, 229A, 230, 230A, 231, 232, 232A, 233, 233A, 233B, 50, 51, 51A, 52...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Michael Matheson) SNP
Good morning. I thank the committee for altering the normal order of consideration of amendments. As members know, the advisory group on stop and search was ...
The Convener SNP
I thank the cabinet secretary for a very comprehensive trip round all the amendments. I think that members received some explanatory notes in advance, which ...
Alison McInnes (North East Scotland) (LD) LD
I will speak to most of the amendments in the group, if you will bear with me, convener. For 18 months, I was repeatedly told by the Scottish Government tha...
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Ind) Ind
Stop and search did not use to be a problem. There were all the statutes that could be invoked on stop and search and there was a lot of statutory guidance a...
The Convener SNP
It is still early and already you are falling apart.
John Finnie Ind
I know. Forgive me, convener. I will not repeat much of what my colleague Alison McInnes has said, but I am certainly grateful for the movement that has bee...
Elaine Murray (Dumfriesshire) (Lab) Lab
Labour members also welcome the progress that has been made on stop and search and the move to putting it on to a statutory basis. However, I invite the cabi...
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
I am happy to support the cabinet secretary’s amendment on stop and search, which reflects the recommendation of the review committee chaired by John Scott. ...
Roderick Campbell (North East Fife) (SNP) SNP
I have heard the point that has been made about amendment 229A being prescriptive but, for me, the important point is that Parliament will have the opportuni...
Michael Matheson SNP
I am grateful for the comments that various committee members have made. The intention behind amendment 226 is not to pre-empt anything. Instead, it creates...
The Convener SNP
The question is, that amendment 226 be agreed to. Are we agreed?
Alison McInnes LD
No.
The Convener SNP
There will be a division. For Allard, Christian (North East Scotland) (SNP) Campbell, Roderick (North East Fife) (SNP) Finnie, John (Highlands and Island...
The Convener SNP
The result of the division is: For 8, Against 1, Abstentions 0. Amendment 226 agreed to. Amendments 227 and 228 moved—Michael Matheson—and agreed to. Amen...
The Convener SNP
The question is, that amendment 229A be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No.
The Convener SNP
There will be a division. For Finnie, John (Highlands and Islands) (Ind) McDougall, Margaret (Central Scotland) (Lab) McInnes, Alison (North East Scotlan...
The Convener SNP
The result of the division is: For 5, Against 4, Abstentions 0. Amendment 229A agreed to. Amendment 229, as amended, agreed to. Amendment 230 moved—Michae...
The Convener SNP
The question is, that amendment 52 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No.
The Convener SNP
There will be a division. For Finnie, John (Highlands and Islands) (Ind) McDougall, Margaret (Central Scotland) (Lab) McInnes, Alison (North East Scotlan...
The Convener SNP
The result of the division is: For 5, Against 4, Abstentions 0. Amendment 52 agreed to. Section 1—Power of a constable
The Convener SNP
Amendment 111, in the name of the cabinet secretary, is grouped with amendments 112 and 37.
Michael Matheson SNP
I will deal first with amendments 111 and 112, both of which are relatively minor, before turning to amendment 37 and the proposed definition of arrest. Ame...
The Convener SNP
So far so good.
Michael Matheson SNP
Part 1 is, in a sense, an extended definition of arrest. It sets out who can exercise the power of arrest, the grounds for doing so, the rights of the person...
The Convener SNP
I call Elaine Murray to speak to amendment 37, in the name of John Pentland.
Elaine Murray Lab
I just want to say a few words regarding amendment 37, in the name of my colleague John Pentland. I should point out that, despite the hilarity over the word...
The Convener SNP
I think that that is deuce.
Elaine Murray Lab
It was drafted by people who know what they are doing. However, as the cabinet secretary implied in his remarks, the reason why John Pentland lodged the ame...