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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 04 November 2015

04 Nov 2015 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Supporting Scotland’s Children

How many times does she need to be told? The UK Government, SPICe and the independent experts at the House of Commons library all say that we can top up reserved benefits.

Let us talk about independence for a minute, because I know that SNP members are keen to do that. It was just over a year ago that the SNP tried to claim that an independent Scotland could share the administration of welfare with the rest of the UK. Now it is trying to claim that a devolved Scotland with powers over tax and welfare cannot restore the money for tax credits. How absurd is that? A party of Government that claimed that after independence it would be able to run a different welfare system using the UK system now pretends that it is impossible to run a different system inside the UK, even when the UK Government is offering to allow it to do just that. Alex Neil should be embarrassed to be peddling such nonsense. He should be especially embarrassed, given that he is doing it to avoid protecting working families.

Politics is about priorities and values. Joe Biden said:

“Don’t tell me what you value. Show me your budget and I’ll tell you what you value.”

Instead of hiding behind the constitution and peddling the familiar politics of grudge and grievance, the SNP should try something new. Maybe it should show us the money. Alex Neil should just tell us what is more important to him, his party and his Government—the incomes of working-class families or the price of a business-class flight.

The SNP has the power and the money, but does it have the political will?

I move,

That the Parliament believes that the UK Government’s proposed changes to tax credits would leave working families worse off and calls on the Scottish Government to restore tax credits to families using the new powers being devolved.

14:56  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith) Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-14688, in the name of Jackie Baillie, on supporting Scotland’s children. 14:40
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab
Today is a historic day for the Scottish Parliament and a defining day for devolution. The members of this Parliament are going to look ahead to the future a...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
Will Jackie Baillie spell out how much money will be raised by the tax changes that she proposes?
Jackie Baillie Lab
I will do so in the course of my speech. I wonder whether I can get Mr Fraser to reflect on the words of Tory member of Parliament David Davis, who said: “...
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) SNP
Will Ms Baillie give way on that point?
Jackie Baillie Lab
I will, in a second. The SNP wants to hide behind the constitution. Stronger for Scotland? The SNP is not stronger for working families. The First Minister ...
Kevin Stewart SNP
In 2013, Ms Baillie said: “I’m not saying that, y’know, we can’t develop our own welfare system; I’m saying we shouldn’t develop our own welfare system.” W...
Jackie Baillie Lab
It is typical of SNP members to hark back to the past. Fifty-five is greater than 45—they did not win the referendum. The people of Scotland’s settled will i...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Order, please, particularly on the Government front bench.
Jackie Baillie Lab
Tax credits work. They boost people’s earnings in a targeted way to really tackle inequality. They lift hundreds of thousands of children out of poverty and ...
Mark McDonald (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) SNP
How?
Jackie Baillie Lab
Clause 21 of the Scotland Bill gives us to the power to do that. I quote the Scotland Office: “Holyrood will be able to top up payments to people in Scotlan...
Fiona McLeod (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) SNP
Is Ms Baillie not aware that the top-up of reserved benefits can happen only in cases of severe hardship and that if someone has had their benefit taken off ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
I will give you the time back.
Jackie Baillie Lab
Thank you, Presiding Officer. What is fascinating is that the member clearly does not understand the detail that is there. Interruption.
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Order, please.
Jackie Baillie Lab
How many times does she need to be told? The UK Government, SPICe and the independent experts at the House of Commons library all say that we can top up rese...
The Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice, Communities and Pensioners’ Rights (Alex Neil) SNP
Last night, Jackie Baillie voted with the Tories to spend £167 billion on replacing Trident and building a new generation of weapons of mass destruction. I f...
Jackie Baillie Lab
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?
Alex Neil SNP
No. Interruption.
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Order.
Alex Neil SNP
Jackie Baillie made it clear during the referendum that she is opposed to social security powers coming to this Parliament. Had Jackie Baillie had her way, w...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Would you sit down please, cabinet secretary? Rhoda Grant has a point of order.
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Lab
I would like to ask for your guidance, Presiding Officer. I thought that members had to speak to the motion for debate and that it is not in order to speak t...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Thank you, Ms Grant. The cabinet secretary is opening with debating points. He is speaking about welfare, and it is entirely up to me whether I stop him. Ca...
Alex Neil SNP
Right, Presiding Officer. Labour members do not like the truth. If we had listened to Jackie Baillie and this Parliament was therefore to be denied social s...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Order, please.
Alex Neil SNP
It is no wonder that the Scottish Labour Party has no credibility when it comes to fighting the Tory cuts. Unlike the Labour Party, the SNP has fought the we...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Cabinet secretary, could you address your remarks through the chair, please?
Alex Neil SNP
I am doing so. Unlike the Labour Party, we will not run up the white flag while there is still a realistic chance of forcing the Tory Chancellor of the Exch...