Holyrood, made browsable

Hansard

Every contribution to the Official Report — chamber and committee — searchable in one place. Pulled from data.parliament.scot, indexed for full-text search, linked through to every MSP.

129
Current MSPs
415
MSPs ever elected
14
Parties on record
2,096,833
Hansard contributions
1999–2026
Coverage span
Official Report

Search Hansard contributions

Clear
Showing 0 of 2,096,833 contributions in session S6, 11 May 2026 – 10 Jun 2026. Latest 30 days: 2,655. Coverage: 12 May 1999 — 09 Jun 2026.

No contributions match those filters.

← Back to list
Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 03 November 2015

03 Nov 2015 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Trident
McKelvie, Christina SNP Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse Watch on SPTV

I think that I would rather talk about what we would spend £160 billion on in this country.

My point that the cost is of no consequence to some has just been proved, and we now understand that the son of Trident could come in at not £100 billion or even £120 billion but an eye-watering £167 billion. That is unlike the cost of meeting social need in our communities, or the cost in terms of the destruction of human quality of life, where a mere £30 million—sorry, £30 billion; I always mix up my millions and my billions—could at least restore some kind of justice. However, to some, it is fine to spend a total of £167 billion to achieve—what? The destruction of most of the world? The skills behind the fantastic technology, the precision engineering and the complexities of a Trident missile would, in my view, be better applied in other places.

What would a Ministry of Defence official or Tory lord or even some MPs understand about the struggles of a disabled father of two who takes his own life after a work capability assessment? The MOD paid out nearly £41,000 in data roaming charges for one mobile phone last year. That equates, roughly, to the cost of maintaining benefits for perhaps four or five people who are unable to work because they are chronically sick, disabled or have been made redundant. I would suggest that the MOD should cut its phone bills instead of the Government cutting its social security bills.

It is heartening that Labour members have voted so emphatically against renewing Trident. The action has no doubt also raised members’ awareness of how frustrating it is to take a view that could be overturned elsewhere. As the SNP Government in Scotland is reminded pretty much daily, our actions are constrained. We want to develop a safer, fairer, better social security system that protects the most vulnerable, but we are not allowed to—at least for the moment. Labour’s Scottish members might have experienced a parallel feeling when they were informed pretty sharply by the shadow defence secretary that, since defence is not devolved, Labour policy would not be changing from support for the renewal of Trident. I urge my colleagues on the Labour benches to stick to their principles.

We would be foolish and irresponsible if we ignored the reality that the financial resources available to the Scottish Government are under the control of Westminster. As the cuts continue to bite ever more viciously, our budgets will be cut as well. The Scotland Bill might allow us some more control over how we spend our revenue, but it will not fundamentally change the fact that we can make changes only around the periphery. We cannot redesign the social security system so that it better meets the needs of our citizens any more than we can decide not to renew Trident. We do not have the power to do either. The Scotland Bill has confirmed that today.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer announced in August an additional £500 million to be spent on ensuring the continuation of the nuclear base at Faslane for the next generation of nuclear weapons. Alongside the projected £167 billion of running costs, we are watching the destruction of many lives here and now, in our communities. John Lamont cannot sit with me on the Welfare Reform Committee every Tuesday morning and not see that.

We are talking about money that could run our struggling national health service in Scotland for the next 10 or more years; £100 billion could pay the wages of 70,000 nurses or 60,000 primary teachers for the next 50 years. I say to Mr Lamont that, yes, I am still rooting for nurses and teachers. It strikes me as a distorted view that the United Kingdom Government considers it appropriate to spend those billions while people who are sick, disabled, young or pensioners in constituencies such as mine are having the food snatched from their tables.

Trident renewal is not only about the huge cost. Just as important is the moral price—or, rather, the price of immorality—because the presence of weapons of mass destruction on our shores or any shores in the UK is an affront to any notion of moral or ethical behaviour.

Aggression is a fact of life. When we see hundreds of thousands of people trying to escape it and the consequences of extremist religious groups such as Daesh, what will we do? Will we send a nuclear bomb to blow them up? No, we should use diplomacy and use that £160 billion to support our people, not to buy bombs.

14:55  

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-14681, in the name of Keith Brown, on Trident, welfare or warfare. I call Keith Brown to speak to and mov...
The Cabinet Secretary for Infrastructure, Investment and Cities (Keith Brown) SNP
Thank you, Presiding Officer. The Scottish Parliament, as you know, has debated nuclear weapons on a number of occasions over recent years. In the light of t...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
I agree with the cabinet secretary on that point, but can he confirm that it is his policy that the money that would be saved would be spent on defence only?
Keith Brown SNP
No. We have previously mentioned the impact of the Trident programme on conventional defence spending, and I think that it would help if we were not spending...
The Presiding Officer NPA
We are four and a half years into this session. For three and a half years of it we have had follow-on debates, which means that when one item of business fi...
Claire Baker (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
I suspect that this debate was scheduled with other events this weekend in mind, but I am happy to open for Scottish Labour. Labour debated many issues at o...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green) Green
Will the member take an intervention?
Claire Baker Lab
I thank the member, but I am trying to make progress. I might be able to let him in later. There is on-going uncertainty over the cost of Trident. At a time...
The Minister for Transport and Islands (Derek Mackay) SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Claire Baker Lab
If it is brief.
Derek Mackay SNP
Claire Baker talked about the position that we are in now. If the UK Labour Party was elected to office in the UK, would Labour renew nuclear weapons—yes or no?
Claire Baker Lab
The member will know that Jeremy Corbyn, the leader, has said that we will have a review of defence. As I said at the beginning of my speech, the Labour Part...
John Lamont (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Con
I stand up to defend what members on the SNP benches would have us believe is the indefensible. According to the Scottish Government, anyone who advocates th...
Derek Mackay SNP
I ask John Lamont, as a good Conservative, to say at what point nuclear weapons, immoral as they are, would become too expensive even for him.
John Lamont Con
The effect and benefit of having a nuclear deterrent cannot be quantified in terms of cost. A nuclear deterrent is something that our country needs, not only...
John Wilson (Central Scotland) (Ind) Ind
I thank the cabinet secretary for bringing this debate to the chamber. Trident, and the future of nuclear weapons in this country, is an important and contro...
Christina McKelvie (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (SNP) SNP
“Bairns not bombs”, “welfare not warfare”—those are handy catchphrases that can help to focus people’s minds behind a concept. Like headlines in a newspaper,...
Alex Johnstone (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
While the member is going through statistics, will she tell us what the only country ever to unilaterally give up its nuclear deterrent was and say what happ...
Christina McKelvie SNP
I think that I would rather talk about what we would spend £160 billion on in this country. My point that the cost is of no consequence to some has just bee...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
At the weekend, the Labour party conference voted overwhelmingly to oppose the renewal of the Trident nuclear weapons system. I am proud of my party and my l...
Derek Mackay SNP
It is not new.
Neil Findlay Lab
It is not new, says Mr Mackay. I will crack the jokes, if he does not mind.
Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) SNP
Will Neil Findlay give way?
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott) Con
One at a time, please. Mr Findlay has the floor.
Neil Findlay Lab
It showed us at our best and, just like the SNP, we will now use our position to seek to influence not only the UK Government but the UK Labour Party’s polic...
Patrick Harvie Green
I warmly congratulate Mr Findlay and his colleagues on the strong decision that was taken at their conference at the weekend. However, over the past couple o...
Neil Findlay Lab
We know Mr Harvie’s position on that, and the Labour Party does not take that position at the moment. That is me answering him straight. The task of the gro...
Christian Allard (North East Scotland) (SNP) SNP
I congratulate all the Labour Party members in Scotland on taking the decision that they took at the weekend. Will Neil Findlay address the fear that some pe...
Neil Findlay Lab
I absolutely accept that, but we must continue with our campaign. I stretch out my hand of friendship to Mr Allard. We have been in the same campaign for som...
Jim Hume (South Scotland) (LD) LD
For the past 30 years, my party has been in favour of maintaining a minimum nuclear deterrent. I should be clear right at the start that the only reason why ...