Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 03 November 2015
03 Nov 2015 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Trident
I stand up to defend what members on the SNP benches would have us believe is the indefensible. According to the Scottish Government, anyone who advocates the retention or replacement of nuclear weapons at Faslane is immoral, war crazed or trigger happy. Even worse, anyone who supports the retention of Trident is opposed to welfare, ending poverty and giving our children the best start in life.
The motion suggests that we have to choose between Trident and welfare, or between nuclear bombs and supporting vulnerable people. That is a false choice. My party supports the retention of Trident because we are the party of responsibility. The first responsibility of any Government is the defence and security of its people. That is why the present UK Government and all previous UK Governments of all political colours for the past six decades have retained an operational, independent nuclear deterrent. However, that does not mean that I do not also support welfare. To present the debate as a straight choice between protecting our country—the United Kingdom—and providing support for vulnerable people, as the SNP is trying to do, is simplistic, cynical and an insult to the majority of Scots.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick)
NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-14681, in the name of Keith Brown, on Trident, welfare or warfare. I call Keith Brown to speak to and mov...
The Cabinet Secretary for Infrastructure, Investment and Cities (Keith Brown)
SNP
Thank you, Presiding Officer. The Scottish Parliament, as you know, has debated nuclear weapons on a number of occasions over recent years. In the light of t...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
I agree with the cabinet secretary on that point, but can he confirm that it is his policy that the money that would be saved would be spent on defence only?
Keith Brown
SNP
No. We have previously mentioned the impact of the Trident programme on conventional defence spending, and I think that it would help if we were not spending...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
We are four and a half years into this session. For three and a half years of it we have had follow-on debates, which means that when one item of business fi...
Claire Baker (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Lab
I suspect that this debate was scheduled with other events this weekend in mind, but I am happy to open for Scottish Labour. Labour debated many issues at o...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green)
Green
Will the member take an intervention?
Claire Baker
Lab
I thank the member, but I am trying to make progress. I might be able to let him in later. There is on-going uncertainty over the cost of Trident. At a time...
The Minister for Transport and Islands (Derek Mackay)
SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Claire Baker
Lab
If it is brief.
Derek Mackay
SNP
Claire Baker talked about the position that we are in now. If the UK Labour Party was elected to office in the UK, would Labour renew nuclear weapons—yes or no?
Claire Baker
Lab
The member will know that Jeremy Corbyn, the leader, has said that we will have a review of defence. As I said at the beginning of my speech, the Labour Part...
John Lamont (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con)
Con
I stand up to defend what members on the SNP benches would have us believe is the indefensible. According to the Scottish Government, anyone who advocates th...
Derek Mackay
SNP
I ask John Lamont, as a good Conservative, to say at what point nuclear weapons, immoral as they are, would become too expensive even for him.
John Lamont
Con
The effect and benefit of having a nuclear deterrent cannot be quantified in terms of cost. A nuclear deterrent is something that our country needs, not only...
John Wilson (Central Scotland) (Ind)
Ind
I thank the cabinet secretary for bringing this debate to the chamber. Trident, and the future of nuclear weapons in this country, is an important and contro...
Christina McKelvie (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (SNP)
SNP
“Bairns not bombs”, “welfare not warfare”—those are handy catchphrases that can help to focus people’s minds behind a concept. Like headlines in a newspaper,...
Alex Johnstone (North East Scotland) (Con)
Con
While the member is going through statistics, will she tell us what the only country ever to unilaterally give up its nuclear deterrent was and say what happ...
Christina McKelvie
SNP
I think that I would rather talk about what we would spend £160 billion on in this country. My point that the cost is of no consequence to some has just bee...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
At the weekend, the Labour party conference voted overwhelmingly to oppose the renewal of the Trident nuclear weapons system. I am proud of my party and my l...
Derek Mackay
SNP
It is not new.
Neil Findlay
Lab
It is not new, says Mr Mackay. I will crack the jokes, if he does not mind.
Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP)
SNP
Will Neil Findlay give way?
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott)
Con
One at a time, please. Mr Findlay has the floor.
Neil Findlay
Lab
It showed us at our best and, just like the SNP, we will now use our position to seek to influence not only the UK Government but the UK Labour Party’s polic...
Patrick Harvie
Green
I warmly congratulate Mr Findlay and his colleagues on the strong decision that was taken at their conference at the weekend. However, over the past couple o...
Neil Findlay
Lab
We know Mr Harvie’s position on that, and the Labour Party does not take that position at the moment. That is me answering him straight. The task of the gro...
Christian Allard (North East Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
I congratulate all the Labour Party members in Scotland on taking the decision that they took at the weekend. Will Neil Findlay address the fear that some pe...
Neil Findlay
Lab
I absolutely accept that, but we must continue with our campaign. I stretch out my hand of friendship to Mr Allard. We have been in the same campaign for som...
Jim Hume (South Scotland) (LD)
LD
For the past 30 years, my party has been in favour of maintaining a minimum nuclear deterrent. I should be clear right at the start that the only reason why ...