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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 24 September 2015

24 Sep 2015 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Inquiries into Fatal Accidents and Sudden Deaths etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
McInnes, Alison LD North East Scotland Watch on SPTV

Fatal accident inquiries provide an important opportunity to find out what went wrong and, ultimately, to learn in order that we can prevent something similar from happening again in the future. Although they are primarily carried out in the public interest, they also give families the opportunity to gain closure when a loved one is lost.

The bill will repeal the 1976 act and enact new provisions to govern the FAI system in Scotland. It has been a long time coming. Lord Cullen was invited to review the system in 2008 and he reported in 2009. I echo Johann Lamont’s tribute to Patricia Ferguson. If it was not for her determined and principled campaigning, we might still be waiting for the Government to address the reform. I congratulate Patricia Ferguson on her effort.

Not all of Lord Cullen’s recommendations have been taken up, but of those that have, three are particularly worthy of further serious deliberation at stage 2. Mandatory FAIs will be extended to cover children who die while in residential care, and to those who are subject to compulsory detention by a public authority. The Scottish Government will be responsible for publishing responses to sheriffs’ recommendations. I will touch on those issues in a few moments. The bill provides an updated definition of “legal custody” to include any death in police detention. It also requires a mandatory FAI when a child dies in secure accommodation.

Scottish Liberal Democrats welcome the changes because the state is ultimately responsible for those whose liberty has been taken from them. Because of our European convention on human rights obligations under article 2 on the right to life, it is a responsible step for any Government to examine deaths in such situations.

Because of that responsibility, and because the current review system lacks independence, we believe that further consideration should also be given to extending the requirement for a mandatory FAI to include the death of any person who is subject to compulsory detention by a public authority at the time of death, and that that should include people who are detained under mental health legislation. It was one of the most contentious areas that the committee explored during stage 1 and we were presented with many conflicting views from witnesses. The committee's stage 1 report asked the Government to consider further whether the bill should be extended in this way, with the proviso that the Lord Advocate could have discretion not to hold an FAI in particular circumstances—effectively flipping the current arrangements.

The Government has indicated that it feels that that would be disproportionate. Nevertheless, it acknowledges that the Mental Welfare Commission for Scotland believes that the current system for investigation of deaths of detained mental health patients is confusing and has gaps. Furthermore, the Scottish Government accepts that improvements should be made to how deaths in detention are investigated in practice, in order to ensure that the process is effective and timely, that it supports learning and that reviews are of consistent quality.

I challenge the Government's view that the bill is not the vehicle for such change, and I am grateful for the work of Dr Richard Simpson during the passage of the Mental Health (Scotland) Act 2015. To rely on that alone and, indeed, by the Government’s own admission, to wait up to three years for a review of the arrangements for investigating deaths in hospital, risks missing learning points from events in the interim and does the families who are affected a serious disservice. I will, therefore, consider further whether there is scope to amend the bill at stage 2 to give effect to a more robust system.

Similarly, the Government responded to Lord Cullen’s recommendation about looked-after children by saying that a national child death review system is currently being developed. The Government went on to explain that it is anticipated that the steering group that is in charge of that review will recommend that the deaths of all live-born children and young people up to their 18th birthday, and of care leavers who have been in receipt of aftercare or continuing care up to their 26th birthday and who are resident in Scotland, should be reviewed.

I ask the minister to justify taking that two-tier approach rather than including those deaths in the mandatory FAI system. In its submission to the Justice Committee, the centre for excellence for looked-after children in Scotland did not support making such deaths subject to mandatory FAI and said that there is no certainty that that would lead to improvements in services for looked-after children and those leaving care. The whole point of FAIs is to learn from the deaths and to improve matters. The lack of confidence in the system that was evidenced in CELCIS’s statement surely suggests that Lord Cullen’s recommendation on sheriffs’ recommendations needs to be reconsidered. That links back to Patricia Ferguson’s work.

Although the committee report noted that there are difficulties in placing duties on certain bodies to monitor the implementation of sheriffs’ recommendations, it also asked the Government to look at ways of ensuring that those recommendations are respected. I do not feel that the minister has sufficiently addressed that point this afternoon. I urge the minister to work very closely with Patricia Ferguson to improve the provisions at stage 2.

The bill goes quite some way towards putting the needs of families at the heart of the new system. An area of concern had been the requirement on families to submit a written request for the reason for not proceeding to an FAI, and it was suggested that the Government should amend the bill to remove that requirement. On reflection, I am content with the Government's response to that.

Parliament today has an opportunity to reform and modernise the system of FAIs in Scotland, and the Scottish Liberal Democrats will support the principles of the bill.

15:53  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith) Lab
The first item of business this afternoon is a debate on motion S4M-14328, in the name of Paul Wheelhouse, on the Inquiries into Fatal Accidents and Sudden D...
The Minister for Community Safety and Legal Affairs (Paul Wheelhouse) SNP
I am delighted to open the stage 1 debate on the Inquiries into Fatal Accidents and Sudden Deaths etc (Scotland) Bill. I thank the Justice Committee for its ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
I note at the start of the debate that we have a little bit of time in hand this afternoon. 14:46
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) SNP
I welcome the opportunity to speak as convener on behalf of the Justice Committee, which is the lead committee considering the bill. As members are aware—I r...
Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab) Lab
Did the committee look at the definition of what is in the public interest? In my experience, the definition is drawn so narrowly that issues that people fee...
Christine Grahame SNP
No—I think that it would be very dangerous for us to interfere with the independence of the Lord Advocate, who takes the decision on what is and what is not ...
Patricia Ferguson (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (Lab) Lab
Like the committee convener, I would welcome that move. However, does she agree that the final report of perhaps a yearly return should be laid before the Pa...
Christine Grahame SNP
I return to what I said as a caveat at the beginning of my speech, which was that I speak with my convener’s hat on. Members have that on the record but I ca...
Elaine Murray (Dumfriesshire) (Lab) Lab
On behalf of Labour members, I thank the clerks, the Scottish Parliament information centre and the witnesses who contributed to our stage 1 consideration. ...
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
I welcome the stage 1 debate on the Inquiries into Fatal Accidents and Sudden Deaths etc (Scotland) Bill. I thank the many witnesses for their valuable contr...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
We are fortunate to have a little time in hand, so I can allow speeches of a generous six minutes. 15:12
Roderick Campbell (North East Fife) (SNP) SNP
I apologise to the chamber for the fact that I will not be able to stay for the full debate because I have another pressing engagement. I refer members to my...
Patricia Ferguson (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (Lab) Lab
As we have heard, it is now seven years since the Scottish Government commissioned Lord Cullen to review the system of fatal accident inquiries, and it is so...
Christian Allard (North East Scotland) (SNP) SNP
Fatal accidents and sudden deaths are unforeseen tragedies. It is hard to comprehend how families and friends can deal with the aftermath of such tragedies. ...
Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab) Lab
We all recognise the importance of the debate. I congratulate Patricia Ferguson in particular on all that she has done to drive the agenda. I do not think th...
Willie Coffey (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) SNP
I am pleased to participate in the stage 1 debate on modernising the fatal accident inquiry legislation. My experience of the system is in the context of th...
Patricia Ferguson Lab
I am grateful to the member for his comments and I sympathise entirely with him about the tragic constituency case that he is talking about. Will he therefor...
Willie Coffey SNP
I am keen to hear what the minister will have to say on summing up. I understand the explanations that have been given by the minister and others about the d...
Alison McInnes (North East Scotland) (LD) LD
Fatal accident inquiries provide an important opportunity to find out what went wrong and, ultimately, to learn in order that we can prevent something simila...
Gil Paterson (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) SNP
The bill is yet another example of the Scottish Government’s—and Parliament’s—bid to implement progressive policies for the benefit of the people of Scotland...
Jayne Baxter (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
A discussion of fatal accident inquiries will inevitably be emotive. Families who have experienced the loss of a loved one often seek nothing more than an ex...
Bob Doris (Glasgow) (SNP) SNP
On 29 January 2009, Colin Love went for a swim beside a beautiful beach on Margarita Island in Venezuela. I have mentioned Colin previously in the chamber. H...
Margaret McDougall (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I have just joined the Justice Committee, so I was not part of the bill’s stage 1 scrutiny. I have listened with interest to the debate, and I have found it ...
Mike MacKenzie (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) SNP
As a layperson—that is, a non-lawyer who is not a member of the Justice Committee—I do not propose to talk much about the technicalities of the bill. Instead...
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Ind) Ind
The bill is technical but, as Mike MacKenzie eloquently highlighted, no one in the debate has lost sight of its human element. We would do so at our cost—it ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
Before we move to the closing speeches, I invite all members who have taken part in the debate to join us for them. 16:32
Annabel Goldie (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I, too, welcome the opportunity to speak in this stage 1 debate on the Inquiries into Fatal Accidents and Sudden Deaths etc (Scotland) Bill. It is clear that...
Elaine Murray Lab
Fatal accident inquiries are inquiries into the circumstances of a death that are undertaken in the public interest to determine the time, place and cause of...
Christine Grahame SNP
I will give a hypothetical example. Let us say that a young mother who is suffering from severe postnatal depression and who has not been given the appropria...
Elaine Murray Lab
Indeed—and I think that there was a recent case of that type. However, an example does not provide a definition. In that case, the public interest is easier ...