Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 29 October 2015
29 Oct 2015 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Education (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
I would like to finish this point. The SNP manifesto in 2007 stated that it would
“guarantee in law the right to a Gaelic medium education at primary level, where reasonable demand exists”,
and in 2001 the SNP said that it would examine entitlement to Gaelic-medium education “where reasonable demand exists”. As I have said, we do not know what “reasonable demand” is. I commend Sabhal Mòr Ostaig and others that have set out the issue in their briefing papers for us today.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith)
Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-14614, in the name of Angela Constance, on the Education (Scotland) Bill. 14:35
The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Lifelong Learning (Angela Constance)
SNP
The Education (Scotland) Bill brings forward a range of measures that are designed to drive improvements across our education system. I very much welcome th...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
I heard exactly what the cabinet secretary just said. What persuaded her that the matter should be dealt with through legislative proposals, as opposed to ot...
Angela Constance
SNP
The nub of the issue is that I want the responsibility that we all—the Scottish ministers, the Parliament and local authorities—have to give consideration to...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD)
LD
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?
Angela Constance
SNP
Does the member mind if I make a little bit of progress? Members will know that, as part of the programme for government, we published a draft national impr...
Liam McArthur
LD
My point is in relation to the attainment of those who might be disadvantaged not on socioeconomic grounds but on additional support needs grounds. The cabin...
Angela Constance
SNP
When we started the attainment fund, we wanted to have a very targeted approach, but we always said that we recognise that there are severe pockets of depriv...
Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Con
The presumption is based on whether reasonable demand for Gaelic exists. What is “reasonable demand”?
Angela Constance
SNP
That will be set out in the process that we hope to address with statutory guidance. The bill seeks to extend the rights of children by amending the Educa...
Stewart Maxwell (West Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
I am delighted to have the opportunity to speak on behalf of the Education and Culture Committee in this stage 1 debate. In the time available, I will focus ...
Mary Scanlon
Con
Does the member agree that in order for a presumption in favour of Gaelic-medium education to operate, we need to understand what “reasonable demand” is?
Stewart Maxwell
SNP
That goes without saying but, as the cabinet secretary said clearly in response to the member’s earlier intervention, the detail of that will be outlined in ...
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Ind)
Ind
Will the member take an intervention on that point?
Stewart Maxwell
SNP
I will take an intervention if the member is very quick.
John Finnie
Ind
Does the member accept that there is a chicken-and-egg situation here? If there is an endorsement of an assumption in favour of Gaelic-medium education, it w...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
Convener, I can give you back the time for the intervention.
Stewart Maxwell
SNP
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I say to Mr Finnie that I absolutely accept that, and the Government’s move in that direction is a welcome step. There is an ar...
Iain Gray (East Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
I begin by stating clearly that we welcome the bill as a clear signal that the Government wants to tackle the attainment gap in Scottish education. It is una...
Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Con
I am pleased to speak on the Education (Scotland) Bill. I put it on record that we have serious concerns about the bill, although we all want to do our bes...
The Minister for Learning, Science and Scotland's Languages (Dr Alasdair Allan)
SNP
Will the member give way?
Mary Scanlon
Con
I would like to finish this point. The SNP manifesto in 2007 stated that it would “guarantee in law the right to a Gaelic medium education at primary level,...
Dr Allan
SNP
I will try not to dance, but I would like to respond to the member’s points. I was quite rightly grilled about that issue in committee when detail was sought...
Mary Scanlon
Con
I sincerely hope not, because I think that we should all respect the views of Sabhal Mòr Ostaig on the issue. I have quoted from its paper, and if Sabhal Mòr...
Iain Gray
Lab
Will Mary Scanlon give way?
Mary Scanlon
Con
I am already over my time. The policy memorandum states that there was discussion with only one group. Finally, I must agree with COSLA’s opinion that the ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
We come to the open debate. I shall allow speeches of six minutes. At the moment, there is a little bit of time for interventions, but that may change. 15:19
George Adam (Paisley) (SNP)
SNP
It is my belief that the Education (Scotland) Bill can lay the foundations for raising attainment in Scotland. That will not happen overnight and it will not...
Cara Hilton (Dunfermline) (Lab)
Lab
Tackling the attainment gap in our education system has to be our number 1 priority, so I am pleased that there is recognition across the political divide th...
Angela Constance
SNP
Perhaps Cara Hilton cannot answer this question now; it may be unfair of me to ask it in advance of her lodging stage 2 amendments. She said that she wants t...