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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 24 September 2015

24 Sep 2015 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Inquiries into Fatal Accidents and Sudden Deaths etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
MacKenzie, Mike SNP Highlands and Islands Watch on SPTV

As a layperson—that is, a non-lawyer who is not a member of the Justice Committee—I do not propose to talk much about the technicalities of the bill. Instead, my focus will be on the effect that it will have, or that I hope it will have, outwith the Parliament and outwith the courts in which our lawyers labour.

The bill attempts to address two concerns, which both have much merit. The first is the grief and anguish that is suffered by families and friends who have experienced bereavement in tragic circumstances. I have lost family and friends in that manner, so I know at first hand how important it is to have some understanding of how the tragedy occurred. For many, their faith sustains them in such circumstances and provides some help. For others, there is a loss of faith. For all, there is a need to try to understand and find some explanation that will allow them to make at least some sense of what is often an apparently senseless tragedy.

The desire to understand the world in which we live, with all its uncertainties, is a very human trait—perhaps the most human trait. Burns expresses it well in “To a Mouse” when he says,

“Still thou art blessed, compared wi’ me!
The present only toucheth thee:
But och! I backward cast my e’e
On prospects drear!
An’ forward, tho’ I canna see,
I guess an’ fear!”

Perhaps the need to understand becomes all the more urgent when we suffer bereavement because the need to protect our remaining loved ones is thrown into sharp focus when we suffer tragedy; perhaps it is because we are reminded of our own mortality and of how precious life is; or perhaps the reason is that the understanding of such tragedy is a necessary part of the grieving and the healing that we hope that affected individuals can achieve. Whatever the exact reasons, the need to understand is part of the essence of our humanity. I therefore commend the bill as a humane bill. As imperfect as any of our legislation might be, it is a step in the direction of greater humanity and, as such, should be welcomed.

There is a community need to understand such tragedies, too. I have lost three friends over the years from the small rural community in which I live—they were fishermen and were all young men in the prime of life—and I know how whole communities are affected when we experience such tragedies. I remember only too well the tangible pall that has hung over my community for many days on each sad occasion. The sombre talk is always about how this might have happened and why. At a community level, there is a need to understand and to try to make sense of what is apparently senseless.

Part of the intent of fatal accident inquiries has to be about achieving public understanding of such accidents, with a view to learning lessons so that we can avoid such tragedies. We have come a long way on better workplace health and safety practice over the period in which I have worked in the fishing and the construction industries, which are known to have high-risk aspects and in which more work needs to be done. I remember working practices that were common in my youth but which are quite unthinkable now. In fact, I shudder to think of the risks that we routinely took and thought nothing of—so much so that, in an entirely rational way, I regard myself as lucky to be alive.

There is no doubt in my mind that the better regard that we now have for human life and safety has been driven in no small part by lessons that we have learned from fatal accident inquiries. We should think a bit about that as we complain about regulation because, in our work to streamline regulation and to make it work better, we must not lose sight of everything that better regulation has done to lessen the possibility of tragedy and loss.

There are, no doubt, aspects of the bill that can be improved. I leave others to comment on that as the bill passes through Parliament. However, as I understand that it will replace and repeal an act that was passed in 1976, I can say that it is surely time that we updated our thinking. I am therefore pleased to support the general principles of the bill.

16:25  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith) Lab
The first item of business this afternoon is a debate on motion S4M-14328, in the name of Paul Wheelhouse, on the Inquiries into Fatal Accidents and Sudden D...
The Minister for Community Safety and Legal Affairs (Paul Wheelhouse) SNP
I am delighted to open the stage 1 debate on the Inquiries into Fatal Accidents and Sudden Deaths etc (Scotland) Bill. I thank the Justice Committee for its ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
I note at the start of the debate that we have a little bit of time in hand this afternoon. 14:46
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) SNP
I welcome the opportunity to speak as convener on behalf of the Justice Committee, which is the lead committee considering the bill. As members are aware—I r...
Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab) Lab
Did the committee look at the definition of what is in the public interest? In my experience, the definition is drawn so narrowly that issues that people fee...
Christine Grahame SNP
No—I think that it would be very dangerous for us to interfere with the independence of the Lord Advocate, who takes the decision on what is and what is not ...
Patricia Ferguson (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (Lab) Lab
Like the committee convener, I would welcome that move. However, does she agree that the final report of perhaps a yearly return should be laid before the Pa...
Christine Grahame SNP
I return to what I said as a caveat at the beginning of my speech, which was that I speak with my convener’s hat on. Members have that on the record but I ca...
Elaine Murray (Dumfriesshire) (Lab) Lab
On behalf of Labour members, I thank the clerks, the Scottish Parliament information centre and the witnesses who contributed to our stage 1 consideration. ...
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
I welcome the stage 1 debate on the Inquiries into Fatal Accidents and Sudden Deaths etc (Scotland) Bill. I thank the many witnesses for their valuable contr...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
We are fortunate to have a little time in hand, so I can allow speeches of a generous six minutes. 15:12
Roderick Campbell (North East Fife) (SNP) SNP
I apologise to the chamber for the fact that I will not be able to stay for the full debate because I have another pressing engagement. I refer members to my...
Patricia Ferguson (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (Lab) Lab
As we have heard, it is now seven years since the Scottish Government commissioned Lord Cullen to review the system of fatal accident inquiries, and it is so...
Christian Allard (North East Scotland) (SNP) SNP
Fatal accidents and sudden deaths are unforeseen tragedies. It is hard to comprehend how families and friends can deal with the aftermath of such tragedies. ...
Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab) Lab
We all recognise the importance of the debate. I congratulate Patricia Ferguson in particular on all that she has done to drive the agenda. I do not think th...
Willie Coffey (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) SNP
I am pleased to participate in the stage 1 debate on modernising the fatal accident inquiry legislation. My experience of the system is in the context of th...
Patricia Ferguson Lab
I am grateful to the member for his comments and I sympathise entirely with him about the tragic constituency case that he is talking about. Will he therefor...
Willie Coffey SNP
I am keen to hear what the minister will have to say on summing up. I understand the explanations that have been given by the minister and others about the d...
Alison McInnes (North East Scotland) (LD) LD
Fatal accident inquiries provide an important opportunity to find out what went wrong and, ultimately, to learn in order that we can prevent something simila...
Gil Paterson (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) SNP
The bill is yet another example of the Scottish Government’s—and Parliament’s—bid to implement progressive policies for the benefit of the people of Scotland...
Jayne Baxter (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
A discussion of fatal accident inquiries will inevitably be emotive. Families who have experienced the loss of a loved one often seek nothing more than an ex...
Bob Doris (Glasgow) (SNP) SNP
On 29 January 2009, Colin Love went for a swim beside a beautiful beach on Margarita Island in Venezuela. I have mentioned Colin previously in the chamber. H...
Margaret McDougall (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I have just joined the Justice Committee, so I was not part of the bill’s stage 1 scrutiny. I have listened with interest to the debate, and I have found it ...
Mike MacKenzie (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) SNP
As a layperson—that is, a non-lawyer who is not a member of the Justice Committee—I do not propose to talk much about the technicalities of the bill. Instead...
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Ind) Ind
The bill is technical but, as Mike MacKenzie eloquently highlighted, no one in the debate has lost sight of its human element. We would do so at our cost—it ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
Before we move to the closing speeches, I invite all members who have taken part in the debate to join us for them. 16:32
Annabel Goldie (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I, too, welcome the opportunity to speak in this stage 1 debate on the Inquiries into Fatal Accidents and Sudden Deaths etc (Scotland) Bill. It is clear that...
Elaine Murray Lab
Fatal accident inquiries are inquiries into the circumstances of a death that are undertaken in the public interest to determine the time, place and cause of...
Christine Grahame SNP
I will give a hypothetical example. Let us say that a young mother who is suffering from severe postnatal depression and who has not been given the appropria...
Elaine Murray Lab
Indeed—and I think that there was a recent case of that type. However, an example does not provide a definition. In that case, the public interest is easier ...