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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 24 September 2015

24 Sep 2015 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Inquiries into Fatal Accidents and Sudden Deaths etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

I have just joined the Justice Committee, so I was not part of the bill’s stage 1 scrutiny. I have listened with interest to the debate, and I have found it very informative to hear the differing views and concerns that have been raised.

I welcome the bill and support its general principles, and I see the need to update, modernise and clarify this aspect of the law. I believe that the scope of the bill could be increased, in line with some of the changes that were proposed in Patricia Ferguson’s Inquiries into Deaths (Scotland) Bill, which was introduced during stage 1 of the Inquiries into Fatal Accidents and Sudden Deaths etc (Scotland) Bill. It would have been useful to compare and contrast both those bills in one debate, but the Government has decided that we should do otherwise. Patricia Ferguson withdrew her bill this afternoon, which I know was not an easy decision for her, but I am pleased to hear that she will lodge amendments to the Inquiries into Fatal Accidents and Sudden Deaths etc (Scotland) Bill.

I want to focus on two areas where I feel the Inquiries into Fatal Accidents and Sudden Deaths etc (Scotland) Bill could be improved: the family’s role in the process; and issues relating to those detained under the Mental Health (Care and Treatment) (Scotland) Act 2003 that were raised at stage 1.

Having come to the process late, I will start by saying that I agree with the committee’s view that we need greater clarity and understanding around fatal accident inquiries not only with regard to how everything fits together but in respect of the family’s role in what can sometimes be a very difficult and complicated process. Right now, I feel that the bill does not have the balance right.

One of the central aims of Patricia Ferguson’s bill was to make the investigation process quicker and more transparent and—critically—to give families a more central role. The two bills had similar themes with regard to keeping families involved in the process; that said, I believe that the Inquiries into Deaths (Scotland) Bill gave strength with its proposal to introduce timescales in order to cut delays. After all, some people can wait for more than five years to find out whether an FAI will be held. I note that not all the evidence to the committee supported that idea, but I would argue that we need a duty to keep the family updated every step of the way.

Communication with regard to work preceding an FAI also needs to be strengthened, and the family should be kept updated on that process. In addition, I agree with the committee’s view that the Lord Advocate should be required to provide in writing the reasons why an inquiry is not to be held without the family having to request that information. I realise that that might be more time consuming, but we must remember that the family, who will be grieving, might be the only ones who have the interests of the deceased at heart.

I find it odd that the minister seems to have rejected, flat-out, calls for mandatory FAIs for those detained under the Mental Health (Care and Treatment) (Scotland) Act 2003, even though the system has been described as confusing and as containing gaps. In fact, I find the rejection odder still, given that the bill will update the definition of legal custody to cover any death that occurs in police detention. I understand that, in a lot of cases, an FAI will be unnecessary and unwanted, but, interestingly, the Mental Welfare Commission for Scotland has proposed a two-tier system in which deaths that are clearly from natural causes or which show no cause for concern are not investigated while all other deaths are.

I wonder whether the minister plans to look at that issue again, keeping in mind the committee’s recommendation that the Scottish Government revisit the issue of mandatory FAIs for those detained under the 2003 act and taking into account the Scottish Human Rights Commission’s evidence that mandatory FAIs might help to deal with some of the human rights concerns that were raised at stage 1. I urge the Scottish Government to improve the system during the bill’s later stages and not only to introduce a robust investigation system that closes the gaps with regard to deaths of those detained under the 2003 act but to rationalise and formalise the current process, as suggested by the Justice Committee.

As I said, I welcome the bill’s general principles and will support them, but I feel that certain aspects could be improved. I hope that the Scottish Government takes on board the feedback from both the committee and today’s debate, and I look forward to seeing the amendments that it lodges to tackle the issues that have been raised this afternoon.

16:19  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith) Lab
The first item of business this afternoon is a debate on motion S4M-14328, in the name of Paul Wheelhouse, on the Inquiries into Fatal Accidents and Sudden D...
The Minister for Community Safety and Legal Affairs (Paul Wheelhouse) SNP
I am delighted to open the stage 1 debate on the Inquiries into Fatal Accidents and Sudden Deaths etc (Scotland) Bill. I thank the Justice Committee for its ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
I note at the start of the debate that we have a little bit of time in hand this afternoon. 14:46
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) SNP
I welcome the opportunity to speak as convener on behalf of the Justice Committee, which is the lead committee considering the bill. As members are aware—I r...
Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab) Lab
Did the committee look at the definition of what is in the public interest? In my experience, the definition is drawn so narrowly that issues that people fee...
Christine Grahame SNP
No—I think that it would be very dangerous for us to interfere with the independence of the Lord Advocate, who takes the decision on what is and what is not ...
Patricia Ferguson (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (Lab) Lab
Like the committee convener, I would welcome that move. However, does she agree that the final report of perhaps a yearly return should be laid before the Pa...
Christine Grahame SNP
I return to what I said as a caveat at the beginning of my speech, which was that I speak with my convener’s hat on. Members have that on the record but I ca...
Elaine Murray (Dumfriesshire) (Lab) Lab
On behalf of Labour members, I thank the clerks, the Scottish Parliament information centre and the witnesses who contributed to our stage 1 consideration. ...
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
I welcome the stage 1 debate on the Inquiries into Fatal Accidents and Sudden Deaths etc (Scotland) Bill. I thank the many witnesses for their valuable contr...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
We are fortunate to have a little time in hand, so I can allow speeches of a generous six minutes. 15:12
Roderick Campbell (North East Fife) (SNP) SNP
I apologise to the chamber for the fact that I will not be able to stay for the full debate because I have another pressing engagement. I refer members to my...
Patricia Ferguson (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (Lab) Lab
As we have heard, it is now seven years since the Scottish Government commissioned Lord Cullen to review the system of fatal accident inquiries, and it is so...
Christian Allard (North East Scotland) (SNP) SNP
Fatal accidents and sudden deaths are unforeseen tragedies. It is hard to comprehend how families and friends can deal with the aftermath of such tragedies. ...
Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab) Lab
We all recognise the importance of the debate. I congratulate Patricia Ferguson in particular on all that she has done to drive the agenda. I do not think th...
Willie Coffey (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) SNP
I am pleased to participate in the stage 1 debate on modernising the fatal accident inquiry legislation. My experience of the system is in the context of th...
Patricia Ferguson Lab
I am grateful to the member for his comments and I sympathise entirely with him about the tragic constituency case that he is talking about. Will he therefor...
Willie Coffey SNP
I am keen to hear what the minister will have to say on summing up. I understand the explanations that have been given by the minister and others about the d...
Alison McInnes (North East Scotland) (LD) LD
Fatal accident inquiries provide an important opportunity to find out what went wrong and, ultimately, to learn in order that we can prevent something simila...
Gil Paterson (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) SNP
The bill is yet another example of the Scottish Government’s—and Parliament’s—bid to implement progressive policies for the benefit of the people of Scotland...
Jayne Baxter (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
A discussion of fatal accident inquiries will inevitably be emotive. Families who have experienced the loss of a loved one often seek nothing more than an ex...
Bob Doris (Glasgow) (SNP) SNP
On 29 January 2009, Colin Love went for a swim beside a beautiful beach on Margarita Island in Venezuela. I have mentioned Colin previously in the chamber. H...
Margaret McDougall (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I have just joined the Justice Committee, so I was not part of the bill’s stage 1 scrutiny. I have listened with interest to the debate, and I have found it ...
Mike MacKenzie (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) SNP
As a layperson—that is, a non-lawyer who is not a member of the Justice Committee—I do not propose to talk much about the technicalities of the bill. Instead...
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Ind) Ind
The bill is technical but, as Mike MacKenzie eloquently highlighted, no one in the debate has lost sight of its human element. We would do so at our cost—it ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
Before we move to the closing speeches, I invite all members who have taken part in the debate to join us for them. 16:32
Annabel Goldie (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I, too, welcome the opportunity to speak in this stage 1 debate on the Inquiries into Fatal Accidents and Sudden Deaths etc (Scotland) Bill. It is clear that...
Elaine Murray Lab
Fatal accident inquiries are inquiries into the circumstances of a death that are undertaken in the public interest to determine the time, place and cause of...
Christine Grahame SNP
I will give a hypothetical example. Let us say that a young mother who is suffering from severe postnatal depression and who has not been given the appropria...
Elaine Murray Lab
Indeed—and I think that there was a recent case of that type. However, an example does not provide a definition. In that case, the public interest is easier ...