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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 24 September 2015

24 Sep 2015 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Inquiries into Fatal Accidents and Sudden Deaths etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

On 29 January 2009, Colin Love went for a swim beside a beautiful beach on Margarita Island in Venezuela. I have mentioned Colin previously in the chamber. He was a young man, and a keen traveller. He did not return alive to Scotland. He drowned that day. It turns out that the waters where he swam were a notorious drowning spot. There were no warning signs, no lifeguards and no guidance from the Foreign and Commonwealth Office that the area might be a dangerous destination for travellers. No dangers were raised by the travel firms involved in Colin’s carriage to Venezuela and the cruise that he was on.

There was also no fatal accident inquiry. Although I do not know whether, in that instance, there should have been one, I know that it was wrong that it was against the law to give the Lord Advocate discretion to have one if he or she saw fit.

I read about Colin’s death in the Evening Times. One of the journalists there, Caroline Wilson, has since reported on the inspirational story of Colin’s mum, Julie Love, on many occasions. Julie has campaigned tirelessly ever since Colin’s death to improve support for families who have lost loved ones overseas. That includes her campaign to allow fatal accident inquiries to be held into the deaths of Scots who die abroad—not on every occasion, but at the discretion of the Lord Advocate. Her campaign and the work of the charity Death Abroad—You’re Not Alone go far further than that, because they also focus on many ways of supporting families. If time allows, I will return to that.

I thank Caroline Wilson for a number of reasons. After reading Julie Love’s story, I arranged to meet Julie to see how I could be of assistance. In the six years since then, I have got to know her incredibly well and I am privileged to call her a friend. I initially worked with her years ago to submit evidence to the Cullen inquiry. More recently, I have supported her with her petition to the Public Petitions Committee. In both cases, she sought to extend the scope of FAIs to include the deaths of Scots overseas. Lord Cullen accepted the case that she made and, only this week, the Public Petitions Committee agreed to keep her petition open, awaiting the outcome of the Scottish Government’s Inquiries into Fatal Accidents and Sudden Deaths etc (Scotland) Bill. I am delighted that the Scottish Government, too, has accepted her proposals and that they are contained in the bill.

I understand why people get so dismayed at the time that these things take. It took six long years to get to this stage and it is understandable that people should have concerns about that. However, we are getting there and the system works—although sometimes, perhaps, it does not work as quickly as we would like it to.

I want to look in more detail at the bill’s provisions on discretionary FAIs into deaths overseas. The Lord Advocate needs to have discretion, independence and flexibility. However, how can he or she make an informed choice about when to use that discretion? When should there be post mortems when bodies are returned to Scotland? I know from meeting many families through Death Abroad—You’re Not Alone that a post mortem that has been carried out in Scotland can often tell a very different story from the post-mortem that was conducted in the country where the loved one passed away. Surely a significant contrast between one post mortem and another indicates that something is not quite right. There may be lots of provisions that can better inform the Lord Advocate, but I am trying to stress to the minister that the Lord Advocate can use such discretion only if he or she can bring an informed opinion to bear.

Will families of those who lose loved ones overseas be made aware of the provisions as a matter of course? There is a balance to be struck, because we do not want to distress families any more than is necessary. Tragedies happen—because of misadventure, because people have been unlucky or simply because of old age—and we do not want to distress families. However, where families think that something may be amiss, they must be at the centre when the Lord Advocate is informed. I ask for more information on that.

In cases where the body is not returned to Scotland, I agree that the Lord Advocate should have discretion. I know of a number of cases where bodies have not been not returned to Scotland because the families could not afford to bring them back. Indeed, some families could not save up to bring their loved one’s body back because it was costing them money to keep the body in storage overseas. A cremation was their only option, because of financial constraints. We need to bear that issue in mind.

I would like to widen the debate a little. At the start of my speech, I said that I had no idea whether Colin Love’s tragic death would have triggered a fatal accident inquiry if the bill had already been enacted. We had the bizarre situation in which we had to write to President Chávez in Venezuela to ask him to put lifeguards and signs on that beach. The travel sector did not cover itself in glory then, and I still think that it does not cover itself in glory in relation to such issues. Could a fatal accident inquiry in Colin Love’s case have driven wider change? It might have identified that the treatment of my constituent by Foreign and Commonwealth Office link workers was pretty dismal, to be frank, and that there is no consistent way of delivering messages about a death to loved ones and next of kin in Scotland when someone passes away overseas.

I have campaigned with Julie Love for a number of years for the Scottish Government, Police Scotland, Victim Support Scotland and other Scottish agencies to give better support to families whose loved ones have passed away overseas. Death Abroad—You’re Not Alone does a lot of voluntary work with goodwill, passion and commitment, but it needs more assistance. I accept that significant reserved matters are involved, but as a devolved Administration we have worked with the UK Government in partnership during the progress of the bill. Let us extend that. Let us work with Julie Love, Death Abroad—You’re Not Alone and all the partner agencies to ensure that it is not just fatal accident inquiries that we get right for people who lose loved ones overseas, but the whole system, because right now it is not working.

16:13  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith) Lab
The first item of business this afternoon is a debate on motion S4M-14328, in the name of Paul Wheelhouse, on the Inquiries into Fatal Accidents and Sudden D...
The Minister for Community Safety and Legal Affairs (Paul Wheelhouse) SNP
I am delighted to open the stage 1 debate on the Inquiries into Fatal Accidents and Sudden Deaths etc (Scotland) Bill. I thank the Justice Committee for its ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
I note at the start of the debate that we have a little bit of time in hand this afternoon. 14:46
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) SNP
I welcome the opportunity to speak as convener on behalf of the Justice Committee, which is the lead committee considering the bill. As members are aware—I r...
Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab) Lab
Did the committee look at the definition of what is in the public interest? In my experience, the definition is drawn so narrowly that issues that people fee...
Christine Grahame SNP
No—I think that it would be very dangerous for us to interfere with the independence of the Lord Advocate, who takes the decision on what is and what is not ...
Patricia Ferguson (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (Lab) Lab
Like the committee convener, I would welcome that move. However, does she agree that the final report of perhaps a yearly return should be laid before the Pa...
Christine Grahame SNP
I return to what I said as a caveat at the beginning of my speech, which was that I speak with my convener’s hat on. Members have that on the record but I ca...
Elaine Murray (Dumfriesshire) (Lab) Lab
On behalf of Labour members, I thank the clerks, the Scottish Parliament information centre and the witnesses who contributed to our stage 1 consideration. ...
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
I welcome the stage 1 debate on the Inquiries into Fatal Accidents and Sudden Deaths etc (Scotland) Bill. I thank the many witnesses for their valuable contr...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
We are fortunate to have a little time in hand, so I can allow speeches of a generous six minutes. 15:12
Roderick Campbell (North East Fife) (SNP) SNP
I apologise to the chamber for the fact that I will not be able to stay for the full debate because I have another pressing engagement. I refer members to my...
Patricia Ferguson (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (Lab) Lab
As we have heard, it is now seven years since the Scottish Government commissioned Lord Cullen to review the system of fatal accident inquiries, and it is so...
Christian Allard (North East Scotland) (SNP) SNP
Fatal accidents and sudden deaths are unforeseen tragedies. It is hard to comprehend how families and friends can deal with the aftermath of such tragedies. ...
Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab) Lab
We all recognise the importance of the debate. I congratulate Patricia Ferguson in particular on all that she has done to drive the agenda. I do not think th...
Willie Coffey (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) SNP
I am pleased to participate in the stage 1 debate on modernising the fatal accident inquiry legislation. My experience of the system is in the context of th...
Patricia Ferguson Lab
I am grateful to the member for his comments and I sympathise entirely with him about the tragic constituency case that he is talking about. Will he therefor...
Willie Coffey SNP
I am keen to hear what the minister will have to say on summing up. I understand the explanations that have been given by the minister and others about the d...
Alison McInnes (North East Scotland) (LD) LD
Fatal accident inquiries provide an important opportunity to find out what went wrong and, ultimately, to learn in order that we can prevent something simila...
Gil Paterson (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) SNP
The bill is yet another example of the Scottish Government’s—and Parliament’s—bid to implement progressive policies for the benefit of the people of Scotland...
Jayne Baxter (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
A discussion of fatal accident inquiries will inevitably be emotive. Families who have experienced the loss of a loved one often seek nothing more than an ex...
Bob Doris (Glasgow) (SNP) SNP
On 29 January 2009, Colin Love went for a swim beside a beautiful beach on Margarita Island in Venezuela. I have mentioned Colin previously in the chamber. H...
Margaret McDougall (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I have just joined the Justice Committee, so I was not part of the bill’s stage 1 scrutiny. I have listened with interest to the debate, and I have found it ...
Mike MacKenzie (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) SNP
As a layperson—that is, a non-lawyer who is not a member of the Justice Committee—I do not propose to talk much about the technicalities of the bill. Instead...
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Ind) Ind
The bill is technical but, as Mike MacKenzie eloquently highlighted, no one in the debate has lost sight of its human element. We would do so at our cost—it ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
Before we move to the closing speeches, I invite all members who have taken part in the debate to join us for them. 16:32
Annabel Goldie (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I, too, welcome the opportunity to speak in this stage 1 debate on the Inquiries into Fatal Accidents and Sudden Deaths etc (Scotland) Bill. It is clear that...
Elaine Murray Lab
Fatal accident inquiries are inquiries into the circumstances of a death that are undertaken in the public interest to determine the time, place and cause of...
Christine Grahame SNP
I will give a hypothetical example. Let us say that a young mother who is suffering from severe postnatal depression and who has not been given the appropria...
Elaine Murray Lab
Indeed—and I think that there was a recent case of that type. However, an example does not provide a definition. In that case, the public interest is easier ...