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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 24 September 2015

24 Sep 2015 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Inquiries into Fatal Accidents and Sudden Deaths etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

I apologise to the chamber for the fact that I will not be able to stay for the full debate because I have another pressing engagement. I refer members to my registered interest as a member of the Faculty of Advocates.

In the light of recent events in another part of the country, it is fair to say that there is greater interest in fatal accident inquiries than there has been for many a long year. Accordingly, it cannot be overemphasised that the purpose of an FAI is not to address issues of criminal behaviour. Such issues really need to be resolved before an FAI can proceed meaningfully. An FAI should be about learning lessons from the past that can be applied in the future.

The bill is the result of Lord Cullen’s deliberations, but it does not follow his recommendations totally, as Margaret Mitchell said. For example, on matters such as an individual’s death in a setting where they have been detained, such as a mental hospital, he reaffirmed his view that it should be a mandatory requirement that an FAI take place, whereas the Government favours the Lord Advocate having discretion. In my view, the difficulty of having a mandatory requirement is that it would inevitably require procedures to be adopted that would have no meaningful impact, in most cases, on the key issue of learning lessons for the future.

What is important is that there is a clear understanding of matters such as what a graduated scheme of investigations means in practice. As Cathy Asante of the Scottish Human Rights Commission suggested in oral evidence, we need to ensure that article 2 of the European convention on human rights is properly respected. I am pleased by the minister’s responsive attitude to suggestions of optimal best practice in that area.

Whatever else there ought to be, there should be an acceptance that the families and friends of people who die in such circumstances need assurance that the demise of their nearest and dearest has not given rise to any issues that require answers. In most cases of death by natural causes, that will be true. Of course, we have to accept that, in considering article 2—the right to life—when an inquiry is required, case law suggests that any inquiry must be independent, effective, prompt and subject to public scrutiny, with the next of kin involved.

However, I am mindful that, since we took evidence, the Mental Health (Scotland) Act 2015 has been passed, with a requirement that a review of the arrangements for investigating the deaths of such patients be carried out within three years of the legislation coming into force. Any further information that the minister can give on that review would be welcomed.

On timescales for carrying out FAIs, we obviously need reasonable expedition, and I can see the case for statutory timetables but, in practice, that might lead simply to an extra hurdle without necessarily bringing matters to an earlier conclusion. We should therefore rely on a commitment to good practice from the Crown Office.

On the question of requiring the Crown to explain why no discretionary FAI will take place, I am encouraged by the milestone charter and the Government’s support for the charter having statutory underpinning. A strong commitment to keeping relatives informed about progress is essential.

On the question of the provision of written reasons to relatives as to why an FAI is not being held, I appreciate the Crown’s response to the committee’s recommendations but, for me, the key issue is that families know that they have a right to request FAIs.

In relation to suggestions that the sheriff’s recommendations should be legally binding, I am on the side of those who believe that, if that were adopted, it would fundamentally change the nature of an FAI. As Lord Cullen suggests, an FAI is not for the purpose of establishing rights, duties and obligations. As Tom Marshall of the Society of Solicitor Advocates said,

“One of the values of the inquiry process is that it ought to be an open process in which people should not be taking sides, because the object is to get the facts into the open and to bring as much information to light as possible, so that lessons can be learned.”—[Official Report, Justice Committee, 19 May 2015; c 13.]

As for issues of compliance and who has a duty, if any, to monitor, the aim must be for recommendations and responses to be easily available on the Scottish Courts and Tribunals Service website. Regarding a comment that Patricia Ferguson made, I am certainly open to a wider dissemination of that information, although we ought to appreciate that that might have cost implications.

I turn to FAIs into the deaths of service personnel in Scotland. We heard evidence from Flt Lt Jim Jones about the difficulties of holding FAIs in Scotland for members of the forces who die in Scotland. The 1976 act refers to a requirement to hold an FAI when someone dies in the course of their employment or occupation, which has been held to exclude both servicemen and—I believe it is also argued—police officers. That led to the somewhat odd situation that an FAI took place into the helicopter tragedy in the Mull of Kintyre some 20 years ago only because there were also civilian deaths. That distinction, which is based on the royal prerogative, seems to have long outlived its usefulness. In civil cases it seems to be ignored, and it remains alien to the inquest procedure south of the border. In that respect, Scotland needs to learn from its southern neighbour.

I am grateful for the minister’s earlier comments on the matter, which I noted carefully. As I have servicemen in my constituency, some of whom I will be meeting tonight, it would be good to be able to advise them that, should they die unexpectedly in the course of their duties, a mandatory FAI would at least be a possibility.

15:18  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith) Lab
The first item of business this afternoon is a debate on motion S4M-14328, in the name of Paul Wheelhouse, on the Inquiries into Fatal Accidents and Sudden D...
The Minister for Community Safety and Legal Affairs (Paul Wheelhouse) SNP
I am delighted to open the stage 1 debate on the Inquiries into Fatal Accidents and Sudden Deaths etc (Scotland) Bill. I thank the Justice Committee for its ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
I note at the start of the debate that we have a little bit of time in hand this afternoon. 14:46
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) SNP
I welcome the opportunity to speak as convener on behalf of the Justice Committee, which is the lead committee considering the bill. As members are aware—I r...
Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab) Lab
Did the committee look at the definition of what is in the public interest? In my experience, the definition is drawn so narrowly that issues that people fee...
Christine Grahame SNP
No—I think that it would be very dangerous for us to interfere with the independence of the Lord Advocate, who takes the decision on what is and what is not ...
Patricia Ferguson (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (Lab) Lab
Like the committee convener, I would welcome that move. However, does she agree that the final report of perhaps a yearly return should be laid before the Pa...
Christine Grahame SNP
I return to what I said as a caveat at the beginning of my speech, which was that I speak with my convener’s hat on. Members have that on the record but I ca...
Elaine Murray (Dumfriesshire) (Lab) Lab
On behalf of Labour members, I thank the clerks, the Scottish Parliament information centre and the witnesses who contributed to our stage 1 consideration. ...
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
I welcome the stage 1 debate on the Inquiries into Fatal Accidents and Sudden Deaths etc (Scotland) Bill. I thank the many witnesses for their valuable contr...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
We are fortunate to have a little time in hand, so I can allow speeches of a generous six minutes. 15:12
Roderick Campbell (North East Fife) (SNP) SNP
I apologise to the chamber for the fact that I will not be able to stay for the full debate because I have another pressing engagement. I refer members to my...
Patricia Ferguson (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (Lab) Lab
As we have heard, it is now seven years since the Scottish Government commissioned Lord Cullen to review the system of fatal accident inquiries, and it is so...
Christian Allard (North East Scotland) (SNP) SNP
Fatal accidents and sudden deaths are unforeseen tragedies. It is hard to comprehend how families and friends can deal with the aftermath of such tragedies. ...
Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab) Lab
We all recognise the importance of the debate. I congratulate Patricia Ferguson in particular on all that she has done to drive the agenda. I do not think th...
Willie Coffey (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) SNP
I am pleased to participate in the stage 1 debate on modernising the fatal accident inquiry legislation. My experience of the system is in the context of th...
Patricia Ferguson Lab
I am grateful to the member for his comments and I sympathise entirely with him about the tragic constituency case that he is talking about. Will he therefor...
Willie Coffey SNP
I am keen to hear what the minister will have to say on summing up. I understand the explanations that have been given by the minister and others about the d...
Alison McInnes (North East Scotland) (LD) LD
Fatal accident inquiries provide an important opportunity to find out what went wrong and, ultimately, to learn in order that we can prevent something simila...
Gil Paterson (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) SNP
The bill is yet another example of the Scottish Government’s—and Parliament’s—bid to implement progressive policies for the benefit of the people of Scotland...
Jayne Baxter (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
A discussion of fatal accident inquiries will inevitably be emotive. Families who have experienced the loss of a loved one often seek nothing more than an ex...
Bob Doris (Glasgow) (SNP) SNP
On 29 January 2009, Colin Love went for a swim beside a beautiful beach on Margarita Island in Venezuela. I have mentioned Colin previously in the chamber. H...
Margaret McDougall (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I have just joined the Justice Committee, so I was not part of the bill’s stage 1 scrutiny. I have listened with interest to the debate, and I have found it ...
Mike MacKenzie (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) SNP
As a layperson—that is, a non-lawyer who is not a member of the Justice Committee—I do not propose to talk much about the technicalities of the bill. Instead...
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Ind) Ind
The bill is technical but, as Mike MacKenzie eloquently highlighted, no one in the debate has lost sight of its human element. We would do so at our cost—it ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
Before we move to the closing speeches, I invite all members who have taken part in the debate to join us for them. 16:32
Annabel Goldie (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I, too, welcome the opportunity to speak in this stage 1 debate on the Inquiries into Fatal Accidents and Sudden Deaths etc (Scotland) Bill. It is clear that...
Elaine Murray Lab
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Christine Grahame SNP
I will give a hypothetical example. Let us say that a young mother who is suffering from severe postnatal depression and who has not been given the appropria...
Elaine Murray Lab
Indeed—and I think that there was a recent case of that type. However, an example does not provide a definition. In that case, the public interest is easier ...