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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 08 October 2014

08 Oct 2014 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Policing

Like other members, I welcomed last week’s announcement by the chief constable that he had jettisoned his policy of deploying armed police officers on routine duties. However, like many people, including many of my constituents, I wonder how the situation arose in the first place, why the checks and balances were not in place to ensure that such a controversial decision could be made without consultation or discussion, why the Scottish Police Authority did not intervene, and why the Cabinet Secretary for Justice stood aside and passed the buck.

Several weeks ago, a retired police officer informed me that he had observed armed police officers attending a contretemps between some street drinkers on Whitesands in Dumfries. On 2 August, Peter Lenthall, a retired Army officer from Penpont, observed an armed police officer in Dumfries supermarket, not attending an incident but buying his supper. Mr Lenthall, who has extensive experience of firearms, instantly recognised the weapon as a Glock 17. He approached the officer, expressed his concern and inquired how many rounds of ammunition it contained. The following Monday, Major Lenthall received a visit to his home by a sergeant, who told him that the change of policy had been approved by the cabinet secretary. Major Lenthall was then asked to sign a piece of paper, which he refused to do. Since then, another constituent has observed another armed police officer shopping in a different local supermarket. How was that ever considered to be acceptable?

It is not just the decision to change policing policy that has caused outrage; it is the way that it was done. I am sure that Dumfries and Galloway is not the only part of the country that is concerned about what is felt to be the imposition of the former Strathclyde Police’s policies and targets on the rest of Scotland. The relationship between the public and our police in Dumfries and Galloway has always been good.

Dumfries and Galloway Constabulary was well respected, and there was much concern about and opposition to the creation of Police Scotland. I supported a single force, but I was told—and I told other people—that local accountability would continue under it. However, local accountability in Dumfries and Galloway is simply not the same as it was. Many of us feel let down, and we almost feel as though we have let other people down. Unless the issue is addressed, there is a real danger of loss of confidence in the police, which would be extremely sad, as our local police at all levels do an extremely good job—they are absolutely exemplary.

The Labour motion asks the cabinet secretary to resign. I certainly do not do that lightly, because I am always happier playing the ball than the man. I know that those on the Government benches did not like the reference to the cabinet secretary’s decision on the release of al-Megrahi, but that was highly controversial, as everybody will remember, and it was hurtful to many of the families of the victims of the Lockerbie bombing.

Then there is the cabinet secretary’s role, or lack of it, in the closure of police counters and control rooms, the latter again without local consultation. When Mr MacAskill came to Dumfries, he refused to meet the 30 staff who were losing their jobs at the police control room in the town.

In one of his most disgraceful speeches in this Parliament, he dismissed, insulted and trivialised the genuine concerns of Opposition politicians who were wrestling with a problem surrounding the proposal to abolish the requirement for corroboration in the Criminal Justice (Scotland) Bill, and then he capitulated and did what we had been asking him to do and remitted the issues for further consideration.

The cabinet secretary has stood aside when communities and politicians have expressed concern over court closures, stop and search and the routine deployment of armed police, always excusing his inaction on the basis that those issues were operational matters for the police. I am sorry to say that the cabinet secretary does not seem to understand the difference between interfering and taking responsibility and showing leadership. If he is not able to do that, perhaps he should be considering a change of job.

15:40  

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-11114, in the name of Graeme Pearson, on policing. 15:09
Graeme Pearson (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
It is with some disappointment that I feel the need to move this motion. It is my belief that the Cabinet Secretary for Justice has abandoned his responsibil...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Kenny MacAskill) SNP
We have discussed policing many times in the chamber over the past 18 months. The Parliament and three committees debated the legislation at length before it...
Elaine Murray (Dumfriesshire) (Lab) Lab
If that is the case—if there is that causation—why did crime in England and Wales fall 15 per cent last year, and why is it at its lowest point since records...
Kenny MacAskill SNP
Crime in England and Wales has not dropped as far or as fast as it has dropped in Scotland, but the decline in police numbers is significant and huge. Number...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
Kenny MacAskill SNP
Not at the moment. That is not only my view, but the view of Niven Rennie, the president of the Association of Scottish Police Superintendents, who said thi...
Graeme Pearson Lab
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
Kenny MacAskill SNP
In a minute. Let me be clear: operational independence is different from accountability. The chief constable is solely responsible for decisions to enforce ...
Neil Findlay Lab
Will cabinet secretary take an intervention?
Kenny MacAskill SNP
I am coming into my last minute. Interruption.
The Presiding Officer NPA
Order.
Kenny MacAskill SNP
We have come a long way since the early stages of reform and the arrangements are now much more effective. The SPA stands for not simply holding the police t...
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
It is important to stress at the outset that since Police Scotland was formed more than 18 months ago, front-line police officers have worked tremendously ha...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith) Lab
The member must conclude.
Margaret Mitchell Con
It is the cabinet secretary’s duty to ensure the effectiveness of the checks and balances that should guarantee the enforcement of essential accountability f...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
I am afraid that the member must close.
Margaret Mitchell Con
In that respect, the cabinet secretary’s stewardship has been totally inept. I move amendment S4M-11114.1, to leave out from “responsibility” to end and ins...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
We are very tight for time this afternoon. If members wish to speak in the debate, they must press their request-to-speak button. Members must stick to a ver...
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) SNP
Graeme Pearson, in his opening speech, asked, “Who watches the watchers?”, and his motion mentions responsibility, accountability, scrutiny and challenge. I...
Bruce Crawford (Stirling) (SNP) SNP
Does the member agree that the fact that there are now only five or maybe six Labour members in the chamber and the fact that only half the afternoon has bee...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
You are approaching your final minute, Mr Stewart.
Kevin Stewart SNP
I agree that it is completely a political stunt. I would go much further, because I agree with Brian Docherty that this is about “point-scoring politicians” ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Come to a close, please.
Kevin Stewart SNP
From some members, we have seen flip-flopping on the issue to create instability and to interfere and point score.
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
I am afraid that you must close.
Kevin Stewart SNP
That has got to stop.
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Members must keep strictly to four minutes, please. 15:36
Elaine Murray (Dumfriesshire) (Lab) Lab
Like other members, I welcomed last week’s announcement by the chief constable that he had jettisoned his policy of deploying armed police officers on routin...
Christian Allard (North East Scotland) (SNP) SNP
I am afraid that four minutes is far too short to debate the 203 words in the motion that Graeme Pearson, the Labour justice spokesman, has put before us. Le...