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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 24 June 2015

24 Jun 2015 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Mental Health (Scotland) Bill
Hepburn, Jamie SNP Cumbernauld and Kilsyth Watch on SPTV

I thank members for their speeches. I will try and cover as much ground as I can.

Although the bill has a relatively narrow focus, many of its provisions will make a difference for service users. Jenny Marra was right to talk about the constituents who approach us about many mental health-related issues. It is always important to have them in mind as we progress this work.

The bill has, at its heart, the aim of protecting service users’ rights and interests and of ensuring that the system under the Mental Health (Care and Treatment) (Scotland) Act 2003 works as effectively as possible. As I have said before, I am grateful to members and stakeholders for working with the Government to get the provisions exactly right. It has been a collaborative process. We have been able to work with the Health and Sport Committee very effectively to ensure that the bill is as good as it possibly can be.

The bill is only part of the Government’s wider programme to improve mental health services. Rhoda Grant is right to say that more must be done. She and other members can be assured that my focus will always be on that. Nonetheless, it is important that those who need compulsory treatment under the act are able to access treatment quickly and to have their rights and interests protected. The bill will play a key role in doing that.

Jenny Marra raised concerns about the bill’s compatibility with the ECHR. I take seriously the responsibility to have due regard to human rights. It is essential from a human perspective; it is also a legal requirement. The bill is underpinned by various processes of appeal and rights to express a view. I believe that the bill is compatible with the ECHR. I am unaware of any ruling that says the 2003 act and this bill are not compatible with it. I assure her that I will always listen and respond to serious concerns.

Various members have raised the review of the inclusion of learning disability and autism spectrum disorder in the scope of the 2003 act. I recognise the disappointment that the review has not taken place sooner. Let me be clear: I made the commitment to that review in the Government’s response to the committee’s stage 1 report. That commitment was made in advance of amendments at stages 2 and 3. It is a serious commitment.

Work has tentatively begun to engage stakeholders. I hope that that is an indication of our serious intent. Bob Doris asked whether the approach would be rights based. He can be assured that I absolutely commit to that being the process that we will follow.

I say to Mark McDonald—and to Dr Simpson, who latched on to his suggestion—that I am absolutely open to an early stakeholder event to help move the process forward. I will ensure that Scottish Government officials move forward on that basis.

There is no disagreement across the chamber on the need for a review. The Government was not able to accept the amendment on that—amendment 1—that was debated earlier not because of the principle but because of some of the mechanisms. It contained a hard timescale, which is not necessarily helpful to ensuring that we have the fullest review possible.

More substantially, amendment 1 provided for the removal of learning disabilities from the definition of mental health disorder by way of regulations if the review concluded that that had to be done. I am not convinced that that is the best way forward because it would summarily remove all the protections and rights that people with learning disabilities have under the 2003 act without replacing them. I do not think that any of us would want to proceed on that basis. The point that was made about the need for scrutiny of any measures that might be introduced is valid, and I am not convinced that that could readily be done by introducing regulations.

Let me be clear: the review will be participative and we have not yet determined exactly how it will be conducted. We want to involve stakeholders in shaping it. I am committed to beginning it as soon as possible, and I do not want to put an artificial timescale on its conclusion. The timescale that was set out in amendment 1 might be possible. I make my commitment: I want the review to be concluded as soon as possible but it is important that we do not curtail it, especially in light of the fact that I have also committed to the review covering the use of psychotropic substances and the inclusion of psychologists in the scope of the legislation.

Jim Hume and Mary Scanlon referred to the burdens that the Parliament places on mental health officers through its legislation. I recognise the invaluable contribution that mental health officers make to improving the lives of mental health patients, their friends and their families. I said earlier that the Government has announced an additional £85 million of investment over the next five years but, taking the investment that was announced in May and November last year, our additional investment in mental health services is £100 million.

The Scottish Government has also undertaken a scoping exercise to gather evidence on the capacity of the mental health officer workforce. That includes data provided in Mental Welfare Commission reports and the Scottish Social Services Council’s most recent workforce data report on mental health officers in Scotland. We will consider the draft report of that work in due course.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith) Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-13599, in the name of Jamie Hepburn, on the Mental Health (Scotland) Bill. I ask members who are leaving ...
The Minister for Sport, Health Improvement and Mental Health (Jamie Hepburn) SNP
The Mental Health (Scotland) Bill’s overarching objective is to help people with a mental disorder to access effective treatment quickly and easily. It does ...
Jenny Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I welcome the final stage of the Mental Health (Scotland) Bill. I thank the members who moved amendments this afternoon and who put all that work into consid...
Jamie Hepburn SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Jenny Marra Lab
I would like to make progress first, thank you. A major review would have explored whether learning disability and autism should be considered mental disord...
Jamie Hepburn SNP
Ms Marra suggests that we have rejected the approach that will see a review of the inclusion of learning disability and autism within the scope of the 2003 a...
Jenny Marra Lab
I thank the minister for that assurance but it is my understanding that Jackie Baillie’s amendment was rejected by the Government. Will the minister clarify ...
Jamie Hepburn SNP
The debate was around the specifics of the amendment. We had the detailed debate. I am happy to go over it again in closing. Rejecting the amendment was not ...
Jenny Marra Lab
When the minister sums up, I hope that he might put a timeframe on that review and make a commitment to that. We welcome many of the well-thought-out steps ...
Nanette Milne (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
I add my thanks to the Health and Sport Committee clerks, the bill team, and the many witnesses and stakeholders who have been so helpful throughout the parl...
Jamie Hepburn SNP
I understand where Nanette Milne is coming from and I understand the frustrations that exist out there—that is one of the reasons why we have committed to un...
Nanette Milne Con
I understand and fully accept the intent, but we would really like to know when the process will end, rather than that it has begun. There are unresolved is...
Bob Doris (Glasgow) (SNP) SNP
I welcome the Mental Health (Scotland) Bill as amended at stage 2 and stage 3, which I very much hope and believe will be passed this evening. The bill is sp...
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Lab
This bill is welcome and the changes that it makes to the law will make a positive difference to the lives of individuals. However, it is clear that much mor...
Jim Hume (South Scotland) (LD) LD
I am pleased to see the Mental Health (Scotland) Bill at this final stage. I am hopeful about the positive changes that the bill will make to the Mental Heal...
Jamie Hepburn SNP
I praise the member for his consistency in raising that issue. I will not rehearse again the fact that there is already equality in law. Jim Hume suggests th...
Jim Hume LD
We looked into that but realised that the structure of the bill was such that we could not introduce an amendment seeking parity of status between mental hea...
Mark McDonald (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) SNP
The bill is a very important piece of legislation, but it is close to me personally for a number of reasons. I have experience of close family members who ha...
Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (Lab) Lab
I, too, welcome the bill. As ever at stage 3, we have to decide whether the glass is half empty or half full. On one hand, we certainly welcome the fact that...
Jamie Hepburn SNP
Does Malcolm Chisholm agree that that speaks to my collaborative and open approach at stage 2?
Malcolm Chisholm Lab
I think that we were collaborative in 2003, as well. Clearly, the bill is an amending bill, so in due course there might well be a need for a wider review, ...
Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
I, too, commend the members of the Health and Sport Committee for their sterling work on the bill, and give credit for all the progress that is contained in ...
Dr Richard Simpson (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
The bill is modest but, as Mark McDonald and Jenny Marra said, it is important. It is based on the McManus report but, as Malcolm Chisholm reminded us, there...
Jamie Hepburn SNP
I thank members for their speeches. I will try and cover as much ground as I can. Although the bill has a relatively narrow focus, many of its provisions wi...
Mary Scanlon Con
I gave the example that Highland Council, which should, under the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Act 2000, provide a report by a mental health officer in ...
Jamie Hepburn SNP
It is important to clarify that it is £100 million, not £150 million, although that is still a substantial sum of money, as I am sure Mary Scanlon agrees. Th...