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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 27 May 2015

27 May 2015 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Assisted Suicide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Allard, Christian SNP North East Scotland Watch on SPTV

I thank all the people who contacted all the members of the Parliament. I got my good share of post and emails from both sides of the argument. I hope that I answered them all, but some arrived at the last minute today and I did not have time to answer. Many of them came from my constituents in North East Scotland.

The lead committee examined the bill in its entirety, as we heard. I am a member of the secondary committee—the Justice Committee—which focused its scrutiny on the bill’s criminal and civil liability aspects, particularly the legal and practical application of its provisions on human rights issues.

From the outset, I had reservations about the bill. In our report to the lead committee, we noted the bill’s unusual approach in defining what is not a crime rather than what is a crime. That was always my main concern. I may not be against the honourable intentions of the many members who I am sure will support the bill, but I am definitely against its principle, which is

“an Act of the Scottish Parliament to make it lawful, in certain circumstances, to assist another to commit suicide; and for connected purposes.”

I shared my frustration with the member introducing the bill. Such important legislation requires to be drafted carefully, with appropriate protection levels. The bill did not satisfy all my concerns.

After reading the stage 1 report, it is my opinion that, despite Patrick Harvie’s willingness to listen—he has done a lot of listening—lodging amendments will not do. It is the bill itself that is not fit for purpose. The bill’s principle is flawed. The bill’s objective to provide

“a means for certain people who are approaching the end of their life to seek assistance to end their lives at a time of their own choosing, and to provide protections in law for those providing that assistance”

was never achievable. More research was undertaken to provide clarity, but more questions were asked. We sought more certainty; we found more incertitude.

I was pleased to read in the Health and Sport Committee’s stage 1 report that David Stephenson QC of the Faculty of Advocates made the following statement when he gave evidence:

“If we criticise the existing system for uncertainty, we should do our best to remove uncertainty when creating a legislative regime.”—[Official Report, Health and Sport Committee, 13 January 2015; c 14.]

We have a system in place, and the lack of legislation on any matter should never automatically be seen as a problem.

The bill attempts to redefine law that does not exist in the first place. David Stephenson QC told the Justice Committee:

“My concern is that there would be a danger that individuals would fall through the gaps and would, due to uncertainty, find themselves exposed to prosecution.”—[Official Report, Justice Committee, 20 October 2014; c 12.]

I cannot see how people will know if they are protected when they act to assist in bringing about the end of a life.

The task that the member has given himself is impossible to complete, given how the bill was originally designed. The bill was flawed from the outset. If I could have helped, as Patrick Harvie repeatedly asked us to, I would have helped. The reality is that, historically in Scotland, there has been little prosecution of people who have assisted suicides. In England and other countries that is a statutory offence. We do not have such a law.

The bill does not provide a general clarification of the law on assisted suicide. The member in charge has clearly fallen at the first hurdle. The present law may not be perfect but, in my view, the bill is back to front and we must reject it at stage 1.

15:18  

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-13258, in the name of Patrick Harvie, on stage 1 of the Assisted Suicide (Scotland) Bill. I will try to c...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green) Green
I express my gratitude for the opportunity to bring the bill to the stage that it has reached today. In doing so, I thank the Health and Sport Committee, the...
The Presiding Officer NPA
I call Bob Doris to speak on behalf of the Health and Sport Committee. Mr Doris, you have around 11 minutes. 14:56
Bob Doris (Glasgow) (SNP) SNP
My role as deputy convener of the Health and Sport Committee in this afternoon’s debate is to present to the chamber the committee’s findings and its recomme...
Patrick Harvie Green
I did not agree with everything that Dr Hutchison said in evidence, but I did agree very strongly with the point that Bob Doris cites—that human beings are r...
Bob Doris SNP
I thank the member in charge of the bill for that intervention. I am sure that Mr Harvie will realise that I am restricted in what I can say because I am spe...
The Presiding Officer NPA
We now move to the open debate. I will first call Shona Robison, to be followed by Christian Allard. I ask for five-minute speeches throughout the open debat...
The Cabinet Secretary for Health, Wellbeing and Sport (Shona Robison) SNP
As other members have done, I recognise the work of the late Margo MacDonald to ensure that the issues in the bill have been presented to Parliament. I also ...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
One of the clearest points to come out of the process is that end-of-life care is not good. I do not say that in any partisan way. It should concentrate all ...
Shona Robison SNP
As I acknowledged, a lot of work is under way to improve palliative and end-of-life care. In a moment, I will say more about the framework that is being deve...
Christian Allard (North East Scotland) (SNP) SNP
I thank all the people who contacted all the members of the Parliament. I got my good share of post and emails from both sides of the argument. I hope that I...
Mary Fee (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I speak in support of the Assisted Suicide (Scotland) Bill. I welcome and respect that the debate will invoke passion, reason and arguments based on ethics, ...
Nanette Milne (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
I say at the outset that I will not support the bill. Five years ago, I voted against Margo MacDonald’s End of Life Assistance (Scotland) Bill, having been a...
Mike MacKenzie (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) SNP
I thank all those organisations that sent briefings indicating their concerns about the bill. I especially thank all the many constituents who wrote to me, i...
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Lab
I add my thanks to those of other members who have already spoken. This is an emotive debate and people will be passionate about the view, either for or agai...
Patrick Harvie Green
The member suggests, as others have, that in passing the bill we would in some way undermine efforts to reduce suicide in the wider population. Is she able t...
Rhoda Grant Lab
If, on the one hand, we see suicide as a bad thing and as something to be prevented but, on the other, single out a proportion of society for whom it is a go...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
Shortly after first being elected in 2007, I sat in the chamber listening to a members’ business debate that was led by my former colleague Jeremy Purvis. He...
Dave Thompson (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP) SNP
I welcome the opportunity to take part in today’s debate and I thank all those within and outwith Parliament who have been and are involved in it. To put my...
Patrick Harvie Green
As I acknowledged in my opening remarks, I accept that such circumstances as Dave Thompson describes take place. The question for us is not whether they shou...
Dave Thompson SNP
I do not accept the premise of that point. The cabinet secretary mentioned that that legal point has not been accepted. As the Health and Sport Committee he...
Graeme Dey (Angus South) (SNP) SNP
Until a few days ago, I was very much undecided about how I would vote come decision time tonight. To be honest, I am still not 100 per cent there yet, altho...
Michael McMahon (Uddingston and Bellshill) (Lab) Lab
Presiding Officer, “Legalising assisted suicide is a slippery slope toward widespread killing of the sick”. Those are not my words, nor are they the words ...
Jackson Carlaw (West Scotland) (Con) Con
As a co-sponsor of the Assisted Suicide (Scotland) Bill, I have to say that I have wrestled with the content of anything that I might say in its support this...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
Thank you for the opportunity to speak, Presiding Officer. It is clear that the subject divides opinion, and I think that most of us can accept that there a...
Patrick Harvie Green
Is the member asserting that that increase has coincided with the introduction or the uptake of legislation on assisted suicide? Having looked at the figures...
John Mason SNP
My general argument is that the issue is very difficult. If we are changing the atmosphere on suicide and moving from a position where suicide is always regr...
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Ind) Ind
Will the member take an intervention?
John Mason SNP
No, not at this stage. The Finance Committee did not spend much time on the financial memorandum. I wonder whether we should have looked into that angle in ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith) Lab
As a general point, I ask members to try to keep to their five minutes. We would not want any members not to get the opportunity to speak. 16:09