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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 27 May 2015

27 May 2015 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Assisted Suicide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

My role as deputy convener of the Health and Sport Committee in this afternoon’s debate is to present to the chamber the committee’s findings and its recommendations to Parliament on the Assisted Suicide (Scotland) Bill. The Parliament’s mace at the front of the chamber bears just four words: wisdom, justice, compassion and integrity. Those are the ideals to which the people of Scotland expect their MSPs to aspire. This bill is not one that divides people along political lines; the decision on it will be based on individual members’ consciences, and the importance of individual members ensuring that they apply the four attributes that are engraved on our mace to their decision this afternoon is therefore heightened.

I am sure that Margo MacDonald would have endorsed such an approach, and I take this opportunity to place on record the committee’s recognition of Margo’s commitment, personal investment and social conscience in pursuing this change to the law over many years. The committee’s consideration of the bill has involved the examination of complex moral and legal issues, and it has been admirably informed by the Scottish Parliament information centre, the Parliament’s legal office and Dr Mary Neal, the committee's adviser on the bill, whom I thank for her assiduous contribution to the committee’s work.

We received more than 900 written submissions alone, the vast majority of which were from individuals—Presiding Officer, I hope that you will agree that that kind of engagement makes a positive contribution to the work of our nation’s Parliament. The committee would like to thank everyone who provided written and oral evidence as part of its consideration of the bill’s general principles. The proposed legislation touches lives in a deeply personal way, and we pay particular thanks to those who provided personal accounts of their experience of caring for seriously ill loved ones or of being present in the lead-up to their deaths.

Many in favour of the bill argued that it is compassionate to provide relief from intolerable suffering or distress and cruel to refuse it. Jennifer Buchan of the Humanist Society Scotland spoke movingly of her experience, saying:

“I am a nurse who has worked in hospitals and in the community. I have worked with people who have dreaded the time when living would become unbearable for them. I have sat on the beds and held the hands of people who have asked me to help them to go every day for weeks, and I have not been able to do that: I have had just to sit by their beds.”

In contrast, however, the committee received evidence of other ways to respond compassionately to suffering. Dr Sally Witcher from Inclusion Scotland believed that negative attitudes toward illness, old age and disability already existed and were a factor in creating demand for assisted suicide. She told the committee:

“Much of the support for bills such as this one is driven by a profound fear of becoming disabled, ageing and becoming ill. Rather than say that we should make it easier for people with that profound fear to end their lives or let them feel confident that they could do so should that terrible thing happen ... we need to challenge those negative attitudes and have public policy that ensures that, when people are old, ill or disabled, they get the best quality of life possible, and that the right sort of support is available to enable full and independent living as equal citizens for as long as possible.”—[Official Report, Health and Sport Committee, 3 February 2015; c 9, 44.]

The committee acknowledges that a desire to be compassionate towards those who are suffering is a key factor that motivates the bill and its supporters. It also acknowledges the concerns of opponents of the bill, who argue that although that aim is laudable, it carries with it risks that they consider to be too high—the risks associated with crossing a legal and moral Rubicon. The committee notes that the bill’s opponents believe that there are other ways of showing solidarity with and compassion for those who are suffering distress, short of helping them to commit suicide.

Autonomy is a key underlying principle of the bill. The member in charge of the bill described the bill as

“the continuation of a decades-long change in healthcare and medical practice that has involved a considerable move away from a slightly top-down approach—as some witnesses acknowledged ... to one that is much more focused on patient empowerment, patient decision making and the principle that each of us has the right to determine major choices about our own lives.”—[Official Report, Health and Sport Committee, 17 February 2015; c 3.]

In contrast, Dr Stephen Hutchison of Highland Hospice told the committee:

“We function as a relational and interdependent society ... Therefore, we need to look at choice with responsibility. To me, that puts a completely different emphasis on the issue, as it is then not about what the individual chooses and demands. That is part of the equation, but it has to be balanced with careful scrutiny of the implications for the rest of society and, in particular, for the vast numbers of frail, vulnerable and frightened people whom we look after.”—[Official Report, Health and Sport Committee, 27 January 2015; c 5.]

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-13258, in the name of Patrick Harvie, on stage 1 of the Assisted Suicide (Scotland) Bill. I will try to c...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green) Green
I express my gratitude for the opportunity to bring the bill to the stage that it has reached today. In doing so, I thank the Health and Sport Committee, the...
The Presiding Officer NPA
I call Bob Doris to speak on behalf of the Health and Sport Committee. Mr Doris, you have around 11 minutes. 14:56
Bob Doris (Glasgow) (SNP) SNP
My role as deputy convener of the Health and Sport Committee in this afternoon’s debate is to present to the chamber the committee’s findings and its recomme...
Patrick Harvie Green
I did not agree with everything that Dr Hutchison said in evidence, but I did agree very strongly with the point that Bob Doris cites—that human beings are r...
Bob Doris SNP
I thank the member in charge of the bill for that intervention. I am sure that Mr Harvie will realise that I am restricted in what I can say because I am spe...
The Presiding Officer NPA
We now move to the open debate. I will first call Shona Robison, to be followed by Christian Allard. I ask for five-minute speeches throughout the open debat...
The Cabinet Secretary for Health, Wellbeing and Sport (Shona Robison) SNP
As other members have done, I recognise the work of the late Margo MacDonald to ensure that the issues in the bill have been presented to Parliament. I also ...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
One of the clearest points to come out of the process is that end-of-life care is not good. I do not say that in any partisan way. It should concentrate all ...
Shona Robison SNP
As I acknowledged, a lot of work is under way to improve palliative and end-of-life care. In a moment, I will say more about the framework that is being deve...
Christian Allard (North East Scotland) (SNP) SNP
I thank all the people who contacted all the members of the Parliament. I got my good share of post and emails from both sides of the argument. I hope that I...
Mary Fee (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I speak in support of the Assisted Suicide (Scotland) Bill. I welcome and respect that the debate will invoke passion, reason and arguments based on ethics, ...
Nanette Milne (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
I say at the outset that I will not support the bill. Five years ago, I voted against Margo MacDonald’s End of Life Assistance (Scotland) Bill, having been a...
Mike MacKenzie (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) SNP
I thank all those organisations that sent briefings indicating their concerns about the bill. I especially thank all the many constituents who wrote to me, i...
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Lab
I add my thanks to those of other members who have already spoken. This is an emotive debate and people will be passionate about the view, either for or agai...
Patrick Harvie Green
The member suggests, as others have, that in passing the bill we would in some way undermine efforts to reduce suicide in the wider population. Is she able t...
Rhoda Grant Lab
If, on the one hand, we see suicide as a bad thing and as something to be prevented but, on the other, single out a proportion of society for whom it is a go...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
Shortly after first being elected in 2007, I sat in the chamber listening to a members’ business debate that was led by my former colleague Jeremy Purvis. He...
Dave Thompson (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP) SNP
I welcome the opportunity to take part in today’s debate and I thank all those within and outwith Parliament who have been and are involved in it. To put my...
Patrick Harvie Green
As I acknowledged in my opening remarks, I accept that such circumstances as Dave Thompson describes take place. The question for us is not whether they shou...
Dave Thompson SNP
I do not accept the premise of that point. The cabinet secretary mentioned that that legal point has not been accepted. As the Health and Sport Committee he...
Graeme Dey (Angus South) (SNP) SNP
Until a few days ago, I was very much undecided about how I would vote come decision time tonight. To be honest, I am still not 100 per cent there yet, altho...
Michael McMahon (Uddingston and Bellshill) (Lab) Lab
Presiding Officer, “Legalising assisted suicide is a slippery slope toward widespread killing of the sick”. Those are not my words, nor are they the words ...
Jackson Carlaw (West Scotland) (Con) Con
As a co-sponsor of the Assisted Suicide (Scotland) Bill, I have to say that I have wrestled with the content of anything that I might say in its support this...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
Thank you for the opportunity to speak, Presiding Officer. It is clear that the subject divides opinion, and I think that most of us can accept that there a...
Patrick Harvie Green
Is the member asserting that that increase has coincided with the introduction or the uptake of legislation on assisted suicide? Having looked at the figures...
John Mason SNP
My general argument is that the issue is very difficult. If we are changing the atmosphere on suicide and moving from a position where suicide is always regr...
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Ind) Ind
Will the member take an intervention?
John Mason SNP
No, not at this stage. The Finance Committee did not spend much time on the financial memorandum. I wonder whether we should have looked into that angle in ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith) Lab
As a general point, I ask members to try to keep to their five minutes. We would not want any members not to get the opportunity to speak. 16:09