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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 01 March 2012

01 Mar 2012 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Living Wage

The Labour Government increased the national minimum wage repeatedly to ensure that it kept up. The fact that we are discussing the living wage now is testament to the campaigning that trade unions have done with us to ensure that the matter is firmly on our agenda. We have a chance to act.

As others have pointed out, the issue affects not only the staff in the public sector, whether they are employed by central Government or local government, but employees of companies that seek to carry out contracts for the public sector. I listened carefully to the minister’s comments, and I welcome the fact that the Scottish Government is investigating the issue with the European Commission. However, the Scottish Government must take a lead. In evidence to the committee, the Greater London Authority made clear that, in its view, the EU’s procurement legislation was not automatically an obstacle to action. Work must be done across the whole country, and the Scottish Government is best placed to do that.

Action on procurement would also address the concern that some have expressed that it should not just be public sector staff who benefit from the living wage. I agree, but I believe that the transformative power of the Scottish Government should be brought to bear in that regard. A living wage unit is important. I welcome the minister’s comments if he is saying that the living wage should be included in the proposed sustainable procurement bill; it would be good to have that confirmed on the record.

In that context, it is important that we consider the voluntary sector. There is huge pressure on the viability of many voluntary sector organisations, particularly those that are bidding for contracts for local authority work. However, it would not be right for local authorities to raise their own staff out of poverty pay while expecting those who carry out work for them to pay their staff less than the authorities would pay their own. That is particularly important for young women with children, who are often paid much less than the living wage.

The Save the Children briefing highlights the fact that 43 per cent of those earning less than £7 an hour are women in part-time employment, and two thirds of all low-paid workers are women. Where the living wage has been implemented, there has been a huge benefit for women. The Scottish Borders Council is not unusual in that 85 per cent of employees who benefited from the introduction of the living wage were women.

One of the most powerful arguments for the living wage is the need to tackle poverty pay and to lift people out of poverty. Given all the comments that have been made so far about the relationship with benefits, it is worth looking at the work by the living wage campaign and the Save the Children campaign, which shows that people with children are still better off and that we should not get sidetracked by the issue of benefits. We need to pursue it, but it should not stop us campaigning for the living wage.

The benefits that Joe FitzPatrick mentioned are wider than simply tackling poverty. There are benefits for employers in terms of recruitment, retention, absenteeism and staff morale, all of which were mentioned by the GLA. There is an opportunity for smart employers to negotiate with their staff to bring benefits to both sides.

South Lanarkshire Council makes the point that employees who earn at the living wage level spend money locally, which goes back into local businesses. That is surely a win-win situation for everyone. I commend the council not only on addressing the living wage but on boosting the wages of staff on modest salaries of £21,000 by £250. Around 76 per cent of those staff are women, which shows us that there is a real gender issue.

It is not only about the public sector; we should also encourage the private sector to introduce a living wage. There are companies that have taken the lead and benefited from the living wage. We need to ensure that we get a positive response from the Scottish Government today. I would like to hear more clarity on the support that the Government will give to implementing the living wage. We need clear leadership, a dedicated living wage unit in the Scottish Government and action on procurement to ensure that the living wage is rolled out across the labour market.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith) Lab
The next item of business is a debate on the living wage in Scotland. I call on Joe FitzPatrick to open the debate on behalf of the Local Government and Rege...
Joe FitzPatrick (Dundee City West) (SNP) SNP
I start by thanking the committee clerks for their diligent work during the inquiry, which resulted in the important report—“Report on the Living Wage in Sco...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
Does the member agree that there was also a lot of scaremongering before the national minimum wage was introduced, which has been shown to be largely false?
Joe FitzPatrick SNP
That is exactly the point that I was going to make. At the time of the introduction of the minimum wage, the CBI stated that “even a low minimum wage would ...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
I am sure that the member is old enough to recall the CBI making similar comments when we stopped sending children up chimneys to sweep them.
Joe FitzPatrick SNP
I cannot remember that far back. I defer to the member. In fact, in the five years following the introduction of the minimum wage, the unemployment level in...
Mark McDonald (North East Scotland) (SNP) SNP
A number of councils have established arm’s-length organisations. Those organisations deliver council services but the staff are not directly employed by the...
Joe FitzPatrick SNP
We questioned local authorities that have introduced the living wage, the most notable of which is Glasgow, about that issue. We received confirmation from t...
The Minister for Local Government and Planning (Derek Mackay) SNP
I am pleased to open the debate on behalf of the Government. The bad news is that I will also close on behalf of the Government. I am pleased to see that th...
Kezia Dugdale (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
Has the minister just given a commitment to a living wage for all employees in an independent Scotland?
Derek Mackay SNP
I am sure that that could be part of our considerations for an independent Scotland. Access to this country’s full resources would give us many choices about...
Gavin Brown (Lothian) (Con) Con
Further to Kezia Dugdale’s point, the powers for the national minimum wage may rest with Westminster, but it would be in the gift of the Scottish Government ...
Derek Mackay SNP
Such decision making is a matter for local government discretion. We do not have to create funds to achieve a policy objective, and I announced last week tha...
Gavin Brown Con
The report states that seven local authorities have implemented the living wage. The minister has said that a majority have implemented it, so, for the sake ...
Derek Mackay SNP
Six councils have agreed to implement the living wage for the financial year 2012-13: Clackmannanshire, Falkirk, Moray, North Lanarkshire, Perth and Kinross,...
Sarah Boyack (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
I, too, welcome the debate. I read the committee’s report with interest and would like to congratulate the committee, the clerks and all those who gave evide...
John Wilson (Central Scotland) (SNP) SNP
I remind Ms Boyack that, when the Labour Party was in government in the UK, it had control over the national minimum wage but that, despite the campaign to i...
Sarah Boyack Lab
The Labour Government increased the national minimum wage repeatedly to ensure that it kept up. The fact that we are discussing the living wage now is testam...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott) Con
You should close now, please.
Sarah Boyack Lab
That is why we would support the implementation of the living wage. I hope that the Scottish Government will listen to us today, as we need that political wi...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
I call Margaret Mitchell. You have six minutes. 15:23
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
The committee took evidence from a variety of witnesses, whom I thank for their valuable contribution to the inquiry. I pay tribute to the committee clerks f...
Kezia Dugdale Lab
I was at the committee when the member argued that that money would be better spent on potholes. Does she regret her comments on the living wage somehow repr...
Margaret Mitchell Con
I regret anything that takes away from service provision. The raison d’être for any local authority is service provision, and that must come first. The hars...
John Mason SNP
Will the member give way?
Margaret Mitchell Con
I am sorry, but I have only six minutes, and I have a particular view to put over. It is more worrying that, in its written submission, CBI Scotland stated ...
Stewart Maxwell (West Scotland) (SNP) SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Margaret Mitchell Con
I have already explained that I have only six minutes. I am sorry that I cannot take an intervention; normally, I would do so. In essence, the Scottish Cham...
John Wilson (Central Scotland) (SNP) SNP
I declare an interest. Prior to coming into the Parliament in May 2007, I was the director of the Scottish Low Pay Unit. I also served on the Trades Union Co...
John Park (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
I welcome the committee report and the general level of debate that we have had so far. I am pleased that, under our new arrangements, we will look at the is...