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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 25 June 2015

25 Jun 2015 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Air Weapons and Licensing (Scotland) Bill

I join others in thanking Kevin Stewart’s committee and committee witnesses for their work on what is, by common consent, a wide-ranging and complex bill. Cara Hilton was right to remind us of the committee’s observation that the bill was a bit of a pick and mix. I have sympathy for the view that it is two bills masquerading as one, and Alex Fergusson quite rightly pointed to the implications of that for the vote on the bill at decision time. The cabinet secretary was his characteristically reasonable and measured self as he sought to deal with the amendments at stage 3 today. However, I am disappointed that there was not a willingness to accept some of the amendments in relation to airguns, and I will turn to that issue in a minute.

There is much in the bill that we welcome. Part 2, on alcohol licensing, and part 3, on civic licensing, set out reforms with which we strongly agree. Kevin Stewart articulated those reforms very fairly in his observations. A couple of examples are the closing of the loophole that means that, although it is illegal to buy alcohol for a child, it is legal to buy alcohol to share with a child in a public place; and creating additional record-keeping requirements for scrap metal dealers, including recording the identity of those who sell metal. Those are both eminently sensible moves.

The fact remains, however, that a great deal of the bill relates to the licensing of air weapons, an issue on which we have consistently voiced concerns—my colleague Tavish Scott did so during the stage 1 debate. Unfortunately, those concerns have not been adequately addressed. There have been opportunities to do so, most recently this afternoon, when we welcomed Alex Fergusson’s amendments at stage 3. I felt that they sought a practical way ahead on some of the issues while lifting the burden on those already struggling to manage requirements for existing gun licensing, for which there is a backlog, as Alex Fergusson indicated.

The Government is rightly concerned about public safety, but crime statistics suggest that the number of incidents involving air weapons is small and falling—evidence to the committee was very clear about that. I do not dispute that problems exist. In justifying the proposals on air weapons, the current justice secretary and previous ones have cited well-publicised incidents when young children have been hurt because of the inappropriate use of an airgun. Those incidents are appalling and have been roundly and rightly condemned, but those involved were prosecuted under laws that we already have. I cannot see any evidence of how the bill will reduce the risk of such incidents happening.

At stage 1, Tavish Scott called for a proportionate response to the problem, but the bill before us at this stage does not strike the right balance. The introduction of blanket restrictions will have a significant impact on individuals and practices that currently present no risk to public safety, without necessarily providing any deterrent for those intent on acting irresponsibly. Indeed, there is even an argument that the restrictions could encourage more people to trade up to more powerful weapons. I would be interested to know whether the bill has been either island proofed or rural proofed in any way, as the Government has committed to doing.

Steps might need to be taken to address the inappropriate ownership and use of airguns, but I fear that the proposals in the bill are more a way of allowing ministers to claim that they are taking action than an effective response to any problem that exists. On that basis and despite our welcome of many other aspects of the bill, we will not be able to support it at decision time.

16:39  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott) Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-13606, in the name of Michael Matheson, on the Air Weapons and Licensing (Scotland) Bill. 16:03
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Michael Matheson) SNP
I am pleased to open the stage 3 debate on the Air Weapons and Licensing (Scotland) Bill. For the purposes of rule 9.11 of standing orders, I advise the Parl...
Alex Fergusson (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Con
I appreciate the cabinet secretary verifying that the principal purpose is to reduce crime involving air weapons, but can he tell me what evidential back-up ...
Michael Matheson SNP
The member is correct to say that gun crime is at an almost record low. However, within the category of gun crime, almost half of all the offences involve ai...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
Before I call Cara Hilton, I inform members that, to allow everyone to speak in the debate, I have determined that decision time will take place at 10 past f...
Cara Hilton (Dunfermline) (Lab) Lab
I echo the cabinet secretary’s comments and thank all who were involved in devoting time and energy to supporting us in our scrutiny of the Air Weapons and L...
Michael Matheson SNP
Does Cara Hilton understand the point that I made about her amendment and the Government’s amendment in relation to under-18s having access to sexual enterta...
Cara Hilton Lab
That is one interpretation, but I am not convinced by those arguments. I lodged the same amendment at stage 2 and I did not hear those arguments then; this i...
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) SNP
Oh.
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
Order.
Cara Hilton Lab
I have lost my place now. I am pleased that the Scottish Government introduced positive amendments that will improve notification procedures and require lo...
Alex Fergusson (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Con
In opening the debate for the Scottish Conservatives, I am sorry to say that I find myself every bit as perplexed about the bill now as I was at stage 1. The...
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) SNP
In April, we debated and agreed the general principles of the Air Weapons and Licensing (Scotland) Bill, and today we debate the bill in the form in which we...
Elaine Murray (Dumfriesshire) (Lab) Lab
The intention of people who support the bill has never been to ban air weapons; it has been to regulate them. Air weapons can and, sadly, do kill. It is wron...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
I join others in thanking Kevin Stewart’s committee and committee witnesses for their work on what is, by common consent, a wide-ranging and complex bill. Ca...
Sandra White (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) SNP
The bill is an important one that deals with metal theft, air weapon licensing, alcohol licensing and, of course, sexual entertainment venues. I will limit m...
Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (Lab) Lab
I welcome many of the changes that the bill will bring about, although I think that there will, in due course, need to be a more fundamental revision of the ...
Kevin Stewart SNP
Will Malcolm Chisholm give way?
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
The member is in his last minute.
Malcolm Chisholm Lab
If Cara Hilton’s amendment had dealt with a new issue, we would not be able to complain. However, it dealt with an issue on which she had lodged an amendment...
John Wilson (Central Scotland) (SNP) Ind
I want to take this opportunity to welcome the discussion and debate on what are clearly important issues for Scotland. The health and security of everyone i...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
We will now have closing speeches. 16:51
Cameron Buchanan (Lothian) (Con) Con
The Air Weapons and Licensing (Scotland) Bill has drawn out areas of both consensus and contention, as today’s debate has shown. As I have commented before, ...
Kevin Stewart SNP
Will the member give way?
Cameron Buchanan Con
Certainly.
Kevin Stewart SNP
I thank Mr Buchanan for giving way. We recognise that there is a small minority of abusers of air weapons. However, the use of those weapons by abusers has l...
Cameron Buchanan Con
What evidence do we have that a licensing regime will prevent deaths? I cannot see it. I do not think it will make any difference; I think that those people ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
Mr Buchanan, carry on.
Cameron Buchanan Con
The misuse of air weapons is confined to a tiny minority of users, as recently published statistics on recorded crimes in Scotland involving firearms for 201...
Colin Keir (Edinburgh Western) (SNP) SNP
Will the member give way?