Committee
Health and Sport Committee 16 June 2015
16 Jun 2015 · S4 · Health and Sport Committee
Item of business
Smoking Prohibition (Children in Motor Vehicles) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Simon Clark
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To be frank, I am slightly sceptical about them. Introducing legislation on the basis of surveys of children of that age is a bit dodgy. We cannot simply assume that children are being totally accurate when they respond to questions of that sort. I would like to think that, before legislation is introduced, proper hard evidence, not just the opinion of children, is taken into account. Two years ago, University College Dublin did some research in which it monitored 2,300 vehicles during rush hour in Dublin as people were taking children to school. In those 2,300 vehicles, only eight drivers were smoking and of those eight, only one had a child in the back of the car. Similar research was carried out in New Zealand, although it was a much bigger survey covering something like 189,000 vehicles—a huge number. It found literally only a handful of vehicles in which the driver was smoking and there were children in the back. I accept that that research was in other countries, albeit English-speaking countries. I would like similar research to be carried out in Scotland to find out exactly how much of a problem there is. In terms of the numbers involved, I do not think that there is as much of a problem as is being made out. I believe in education, not legislation, if at all possible. Legislation should be a last resort. We would happily join the Scottish Government in a media campaign to encourage the handful of people who still smoke in a car with children present not to do so, saying, “Think of the children. This is inconsiderate. Don’t do it.” We should consider doing that before we go the whole hog and introduce legislation. It is important that we do not stigmatise the vast majority of adult smokers. Introducing such a law would stigmatise smokers. It would basically be saying to smokers, “You don’t know how to behave around children,” which I think is wrong. The reason why the issue is important to us is that the bill is quite a symbolically important step. It would be the first time that smoking in a private space, as opposed to a so-called public space, would be banned.
In the same item of business
The Convener
Lab
Agenda item 4 is evidence on the Smoking Prohibition (Children in Motor Vehicles) (Scotland) Bill. I welcome Simon Clark, director of the Freedom Organisatio...
Richard Lyle
SNP
I am a car driver and a smoker, and I do not feel threatened by the bill. Your position as expressed in your submission is: “FOREST does not support the int...
Simon Clark (Freedom Organisation for the Right to Enjoy Smoking Tobacco)
I do not think that you should ban everything that might not be wise. Parents should err on the side of caution on certain things. We have been saying for ma...
Richard Lyle
SNP
I have two grandchildren. I have two child seats in the back of my car. I do not smoke in my car when my grandchildren are in it. At the end of the day, the ...
Simon Clark
To be frank, I am slightly sceptical about them. Introducing legislation on the basis of surveys of children of that age is a bit dodgy. We cannot simply ass...
Richard Lyle
SNP
The nub of your argument is that you feel that the bill is an encroachment on people’s civil liberties. I smoke, and I smoke in my car, and I do not feel thr...
Simon Clark
Obviously, I cannot speak for the police. They are going to speak on the subject a bit later. As a member of the public who does not know enough about the po...
Dr Simpson
Lab
May I just correct one thing? Kenny Gibson, with my support, introduced a bill in 1999, proposing that there should be a ban on smoking in restaurants—anywhe...
Simon Clark
I am not an expert, so I probably should not answer that question. I think that parents should err on the side of caution. It is common sense that any parent...
Dr Simpson
Lab
So we can add to the list that passive smoking research is not valid, and research on smoking in cars—
Simon Clark
Now you are exaggerating.
Dr Simpson
Lab
That is what you are saying.
Simon Clark
I am not saying that it is not valid.
Dr Simpson
Lab
You are saying that the research is not valid unless it supports your case.
Simon Clark
I am saying that the threat of second-hand smoke has been exaggerated. I cannot repeat often enough that I am not encouraging people to smoke in a car with c...
Dr Simpson
Lab
The Government did not accept Kenny Gibson’s proposals in 1999 because, at that point, the research on passive smoking was not good enough. However, within t...
Simon Clark
The problem is that workers could have been protected by the provision of designated smoking rooms.
Dr Simpson
Lab
We tried that. When Susan Deacon refused to take up Kenny Gibson’s bill in 1999, she said that ventilation systems would be introduced. It was clear from the...
The Convener
Lab
That is in the past. We are dealing with another bill today.
Dennis Robertson
SNP
I am a bit confused, Mr Clark. You say that you would have more respect if the Government called for a ban on tobacco altogether. Fair enough, there would be...
Simon Clark
No, sorry.
Dennis Robertson
SNP
I did not think that you would.
Simon Clark
I am not sure where you got the 24 per cent figure. Our understanding is that research shows that fewer than 13 per cent of children are exposed to tobacco s...
Dennis Robertson
SNP
So you say that that is too high.
Simon Clark
About 1 per cent of children are regularly exposed to tobacco smoke. If someone is just exposed very occasionally, among that 13 per cent, I do not believe t...
Dennis Robertson
SNP
You mention the figure of 13 per cent, but that gives you no idea whether any of those children have respiratory problems. If an adult is smoking irresponsib...
Simon Clark
Again, that would be patronising for the vast majority of smokers who know how to behave. I am a bit disturbed about some of the language that you use—for ex...
Dennis Robertson
SNP
I did not say that smoking was to blame for asthma; I said that a child’s asthma could be exacerbated by an adult smoking.
Simon Clark
Sure. However, I do not think that we have gone down the education route on smoking in cars when children are present. I think that legislation should be a l...
Dennis Robertson
SNP
The point that I cannot come to terms with in your argument is that you seem to accept that, during a three-year moratorium, children will still be exposed t...