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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 10 June 2015

10 Jun 2015 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Health

I welcomed the text of Jenny Marra’s motion when I read it after it was published last night, and I welcome the generally consensual and positive speech that she made. That approach is welcome. It is quite clear that the approach is one that other people are taking up. As outlined in the cabinet secretary’s amendment, many patients, members of the public and professionals are recognising that, across the board, we need an honest conversation about the long-term future of our NHS, to ensure that it can meet the considerable challenges of the future.

We often talk about those challenges, and it sometimes concerns me that when we talk about them, they all sound hugely difficult. However, some of them are extremely positive because many of them result from people living longer and from the advent of much improved medical solutions right across the board.

It is also very important that in the discussion, we should not lose sight of the considerable progress that our NHS has made in recent years or the high-quality care that is delivered every single day by the vast majority of doctors, nurses, auxiliaries, assistants, ancillary staff and, of course, administrators, who help the wheels to turn.

We have excellence to build on. The cabinet secretary outlined record funding and staffing and the other improvements that are being made in moving towards the 2020 vision that has been agreed for our health service. That vision for health and social care has prompted the fundamental shift towards more preventative healthcare and care that allows people to remain in their own homes, which is where, in general, they want to be. This week is carers week in Scotland, and we should always remember that part of the integrated care approach is about respect for the needs of carers, of whom there are so many.

In my constituency of East Kilbride, an award-winning NHS Lanarkshire integrated care team is doing sterling work, but we still have a long way to go. There are issues to be tackled, involving bed blocking, home care packages and better working between departments within health boards—for example, between primary care, acute care and mental health services. We also need better working between health boards and local authorities. That has begun, of course, with the Public Bodies (Joint Working) (Scotland) Act 2014, but it is not easy.

Our public institutions are renowned for having a fortress mentality that can lead to intransigence. I do not say that lightly; I say it following years of parliamentary experience on various committees. I do not have time to go into it all but I remember being on the Finance Committee in the previous parliamentary session when we did a very in-depth inquiry into preventative spending, and it was striking just how intransigent some of our public bodies were when it came to looking after their own budgets.

If we can get beyond the silo mentality that Nanette Milne spoke of—the silos that exist both within and between our public bodies—surely we can get beyond the silo mentality among political parties. I am really heartened by what I have heard in the chamber today. I hope that Jenny Marra and her colleagues take my comment in the spirit that is intended—I hope that this finally marks a move away from the “SNP bad” approach that seems to have dominated Labour thinking for quite a time. Successfully managing the NHS in public hands requires agreement across the parties, as well as across institutions, about some of the key priorities and the key principles.

The SNP Government has made it clear that we agree with the fundamental principle that NHS services should be free at the point of need, and the Labour Party has made it clear that it agrees with that too. There may be discussion about what that actually means but it is a basic, fundamental principle that we can all get behind.

I make a plea to Jenny Marra to spread her approach more widely across her party because our recent experience in East Kilbride has not been encouraging in that respect. For example, her colleagues in East Kilbride condemned us for repairing a seriously rundown health centre; then they condemned us for deciding to build a new health centre; now they are giving us a really hard time for daring to have artworks on the walls of the new centre, now that it has been built. East Kilbride Labour seems to hanker after the days when all public buildings looked the same and all NHS buildings had walls that were painted green and cream. However, on a national level, I think that we are moving beyond that.

I am also pleased that, at a national level, we accept that a new consensual approach to targets is necessary. Over the years, we have not always looked at targets in a helpful way. I remember many targets being abandoned by previous Governments, and other targets coming back again. I would like continual quantitative and qualitative monitoring, so that we constantly strive for improvement. I hope that we can, through the consensus that I have spoken about, fulfil that aim for our health service.

15:35  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith) Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-13416, in the name of Jenny Marra, on health. I invite members who wish to contribute to the debate to pr...
Jenny Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I and other Labour members have approached today’s debate in a conciliatory way, hoping to reach a consensus on the way in which we take forward the debate o...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
Will the member give way?
Jenny Marra Lab
I would like to make a little more progress, but I will do so later. Those are significant and considered interventions from experts who do not use such str...
John Mason SNP
Does the member agree that one of the decisions that must be made and in which the public certainly must be involved is whether we put more resource into pre...
Jenny Marra Lab
There is a great consensus in all the reports that we have seen about the shift to preventative spend. We will approach the public debate with a programme of...
The Cabinet Secretary for Health, Wellbeing and Sport (Shona Robison) SNP
I welcome Jenny Marra’s consensual tone. My amendment seeks to build on that tone, and I hope that it will be received in that spirit. Presiding Officer, I ...
Jenny Marra Lab
I thank the cabinet secretary for her considered response, and I welcome the fact that the chief medical officer is visiting Ninewells on Monday. However, do...
Shona Robison SNP
Of course. Indeed, that is why we have set up the whistleblowing helpline. However, that does not mean that the concern that is raised is always correct or t...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
I can give you two minutes back.
Shona Robison SNP
We face a number of challenges to our health and social care system including poor patterns of health, health inequalities, rapidly changing demography, high...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Will you draw to a close now, please, cabinet secretary?
Shona Robison SNP
Yes. That level of open engagement will seek consensus on a reform plan for health and social care by 2016, with further engagement beyond then on into impl...
Nanette Milne (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
We very much welcome this debate. Like everyone here, Scottish Conservatives greatly value the work and dedication of the staff in NHS Scotland and Scotland’...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
We turn to the open debate. I ask for speeches of six minutes, please. There is not a lot of time in hand. 15:16
Bob Doris (Glasgow) (SNP) SNP
I start by referring to targets in the NHS, which was a theme in the opening speeches. The briefing that the royal colleges prepared for the debate specifica...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Mr Doris, you really must close.
Bob Doris SNP
That is a hobby horse of mine. I hope that the cabinet secretary has listened to my sales pitch for the care sector. 15:23
Lewis Macdonald (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab
The challenge of matching NHS resources to demand for healthcare is tough everywhere, and nowhere more so than in NHS Grampian. I know the service well, not ...
John Mason SNP
I take the member’s point about population being important. Does he agree that need and deprivation are also important?
Lewis Macdonald Lab
Absolutely, and that is exactly what the NRAC formula is intended to reflect—population growth, need and deprivation and urban and rural populations. The Gov...
Linda Fabiani (East Kilbride) (SNP) SNP
I welcomed the text of Jenny Marra’s motion when I read it after it was published last night, and I welcome the generally consensual and positive speech that...
Jim Hume (South Scotland) (LD) LD
I welcome this debate on health. At a time when we often take a narrow focus and address only separate elements of the NHS, I believe—as the Royal College of...
The Minister for Sport, Health Improvement and Mental Health (Jamie Hepburn) SNP
Mr Hume has raised the issue of mental health valiantly on many occasions, and more power to his elbow in doing so, but I reiterate the point that parity bet...
Jim Hume LD
I have replied that it does not repeat what has been done elsewhere to state the need for parity between physical health and mental health. I am happy to for...
Dennis Robertson (Aberdeenshire West) (SNP) SNP
Just yesterday, directors of finance from some of our NHS boards gave evidence to the Heath and Sport Committee, and at one point I started to feel very sorr...
Jim Hume LD
Dennis Robertson said that I am not listening, but although the Mental Health (Scotland) Bill states that there should be improvements in mental health, it d...
Dennis Robertson SNP
That proves my point to some extent, because we have interpretation. The issue will be about our coming together to try to make improvements. Our nurses—perh...
Jenny Marra Lab
Dennis Robertson referred to my remarks on the timescale of the public conversation that the RCN has called for. He is saying that we are looking for solutio...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott) Con
And your point is?