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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 03 June 2015

03 Jun 2015 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Universities
Baker, Richard Lab North East Scotland Watch on SPTV

I am pleased that Parliament has this opportunity to debate the challenges that face our universities. In Aberdeen, the issue of support for our university sector is a fairly current concern. Our local university has announced that it is to lose 150 posts. That has caused great anxiety among the staff and students. It raises real questions about how universities are equipped to perform their vital role in our country. In Aberdeen, the impact on our local economy of the University of Aberdeen and Robert Gordon University cannot be overstated. Of course, the universities are of great importance nationally, given their support for our oil and gas industry and the skills and expertise that it needs. We must hear today from the cabinet secretary how the Government will ensure that our universities receive the resources that they need to recruit and retain the staff they require in the ferociously competitive global higher education sector, and, specifically, how it will support the University of Aberdeen and ensure that there are no compulsory redundancies.

Higher education is an area in which we have long had a competitive advantage. That is not an advantage that our nation can afford to lose. Staff at the University of Aberdeen should be rewarded for their efforts rather than being put in a position where they face redundancy. That demands a response from the Scottish Government.

Most of the speeches that we have heard today reflect a consensus that has been established that free tuition is the right policy for Scotland. Of course, Labour wanted to reduce fees in England, which would have provided a potential boost for the sector here. However, any temptation that there might be to say that the fact that we have no tuition fees means that the job is done in higher education should be resisted. I am not sure that it has been resisted over the past few years.

We have long debated the impact of the cuts in further education, and Universities Scotland’s submission outlines funding challenges in the higher education sector in Scotland as well. On capital funding, we can understand why the constraints are there, given the context in which the Scottish Government works. However, cuts in research funding can only be damaging to institutions and our economy.

There are wider issues as well. Some of our institutions have the worst drop-out rates in the United Kingdom, and I would not be surprised if they were among the worst in Europe. That represents a wasted opportunity for the students who drop out and a wasted investment for the state. It is certainly not discussed enough in this Parliament. We want our universities to be the best that they can be and we want to be as proud of them as we can be. Therefore, ministers must get to grips with this issue and seek solutions to the problem. We are also still not doing enough to widen access, as has been discussed. Student support is a crucial part of both of those issues. The level of grant that is available to students from low-income backgrounds is of massive importance to the success of their studies. Students here have benefited from free tuition but, in other parts of the UK, students have had better grants and student support. That issue requires more scrutiny and debate in Scotland.

On governance, of course it is important that university courts are properly inclusive and that staff are represented. Looking back, we previously had elected chairs of courts through the role of the rectors. As Iain Gray said, reform is important, as is accountability. However, in that context, the independence of universities must also be respected.

The Scottish Government has been quick to take powers to itself rather than devolve them and to seek to centrally control organisations such as colleges, which should be empowered to make the decisions locally that best fit their distinctive needs. In the same way, universities must have proper local accountability. However, beyond that, their independence is important.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott) Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-13313, in the name of Liz Smith, on Scotland’s universities. We are extraordinarily tight for time today....
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
It does not really matter which academic, economic or social measurement is chosen—Scottish universities are held in high esteem throughout the world. That i...
The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Lifelong Learning (Angela Constance) SNP
I am pleased that the Conservatives have chosen to discuss higher education, because that gives me the opportunity to celebrate Scotland’s universities and t...
Liz Smith Con
I absolutely agree with those statistics, but what are the grounds on which universities have achieved such outstanding success?
Angela Constance SNP
The £1 billion annual funding to which this Government is committed has made some contribution. Of course, many others should be congratulated, not least of ...
Liz Smith Con
Why does the cabinet secretary think that Professor Downes said that the Scottish Government should “reflect seriously on the wide range of evidence that sa...
Angela Constance SNP
We are indeed considering the wide range of evidence that is available in Scotland and across the developed world. In addition, as an open and transparent Go...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
You are in your final 30 seconds.
Angela Constance SNP
I want to briefly share a couple of facts on what universities and the Government have achieved by working together. We know that the number of Scotland-domi...
Iain Gray (East Lothian) (Lab) Lab
The amendment in my name seeks to leave intact the first half or so of the Conservative motion, for the simple reason that there can be no disagreement with ...
George Adam (Paisley) (SNP) SNP
I agree that our university sector makes an outstanding contribution to Scotland academically, socially and culturally. That is why the Scottish Government i...
James Kelly (Rutherglen) (Lab) Lab
I welcome the fact that the Conservatives are using their time to look at the key issue of how we organise our universities. The issues in the debate concern...
Alex Johnstone (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
Will the member accept that what we are taking is not a free-market approach but a fundamentally liberal approach? Such an approach is completely missing aro...
James Kelly Lab
I was going to say that, whereas legislation should not be used for legislation’s sake, as Mr Gray and others pointed out, huge amounts of public money are i...
Liz Smith Con
On what grounds is the member arguing that there is a serious problem in higher education? Where is the evidence that we are failing because governance is no...
James Kelly Lab
Let me go on to my next point. There are more fundamental issues than simply governance that we have to address in the university sector. However, governan...
Stewart Maxwell (West Scotland) (SNP) SNP
I very much welcome the opportunity to speak in this afternoon’s debate on the important contribution that our universities make to Scotland. Liz Smith is ri...
Annabel Goldie (West Scotland) (Con) Con
Presiding Officer, let me declare an interest: my alma mater is the University of Strathclyde, of which I am an honorary fellow. Not surprisingly, I hold my ...
Nigel Don (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) SNP
I am grateful to Annabel Goldie for describing how things can be done very well. The point in any sensible society is that we want to ensure that things are ...
Richard Baker (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I am pleased that Parliament has this opportunity to debate the challenges that face our universities. In Aberdeen, the issue of support for our university s...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith) Lab
Could you draw to a close, please?
Richard Baker Lab
That is not an argument against reform; it is an argument against an overbearing approach from central Government. There should be accountability to staff an...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
I am afraid that I have to advise members that there is absolutely no time. Please stick to your time. 15:30
Gordon MacDonald (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP) SNP
My constituency has two universities within its boundaries: Edinburgh Napier University and Heriot-Watt University. I take great interest in both institution...
Iain Gray Lab
Although short, this has been a two-pronged debate: there has been some debate on the success of our universities and their funding, but it has mostly been a...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
I am afraid that you must close now, please.
Iain Gray Lab
They are not trade union reps but they are often treated as such. As I said in my opening speech, yes, there should be autonomy, but it should be responsibl...
Angela Constance SNP
I say to Mr Gray that, although I have many faults—I am sure that he is familiar with a few of them—complacency is most certainly not one of them. As I refl...
Iain Gray Lab
Will the minister address the point about the transfers to the SAAS?
Angela Constance SNP
Of course there has been a transfer of resources, but that has no impact on the level of support available to students. SAAS funding for student support is d...