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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 13 May 2015

13 May 2015 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Scottish Apprenticeship Week
Smith, Liz Con Mid Scotland and Fife Watch on SPTV

I reiterate our support for the Scottish Government’s motion and the priority that is placed on this very important issue. I add my support for Mary Scanlon’s amendment, which raises some important additional issues, and for the Labour amendment.

Some interesting discussions are taking place in apprenticeship policy just now, in the context of both the changing economic and educational environment, to which the cabinet secretary referred in her opening remarks, and the analysis of the available data and how the success to date of the modern apprenticeship programme is measured, which is important. That was very much the topic at the recent meeting of the cross-party group on colleges and universities, at which those in the front line of the provision of apprenticeships were very clear that there must be a change of approach.

There must be a qualitative dimension to the apprenticeship programme, rather than just a concentration on increasing numbers. Iain Gray raised that point, as well. Mary Scanlon rightly pointed to the achievement side of modern apprenticeships, which is a qualitative dimension. Nigel Don made an important point about the provision of the skills that are important to the demands of the economy, which is also part of the qualitative dimension, rather than part of the numbers games.

Tony Coultas and Diane Greenlees of SDS argue that much better and deeper engagement between employers and learners is necessary to ensure that learners are much better prepared for the world of work. They strongly argue that that must take place at an earlier age. I note that Jim McColl said the same thing earlier this week.

The general feeling is that the curriculum for excellence and the establishment of a new regional college structure are good things, but it was pointed out that one of the most important things that the larger colleges can do is ensure that they can deliver when it comes to the demands of the very specific local economies. If you listen to college principals just now, you can hear that they stress that point. There are a few question marks around that.

Assessment of the value of different levels of apprenticeship is important, as is assessment of the different skills-based learning that they entail and how to articulate between different schools, colleges and universities.

Generally speaking, it is a good picture. There was great praise for the ambition to develop the 28 pathfinders across the five sectors by August 2015, and for the fact that that will benefit 28 cohorts of pupils, which matches the ambition to involve all local authorities. As I understand it, the Scottish Government’s target in that regard is August 2016.

There are clearly successful examples of local authorities working with education establishments and with business and industry. Those who spoke to the cross-party group told us about West Lothian, Fife and the Forth valley and spoke strongly about the innovative aspect of that.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith) Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-13112, in the name of Roseanna Cunningham, on Scottish apprenticeship week. Members who wish to speak sho...
The Cabinet Secretary for Fair Work, Skills and Training (Roseanna Cunningham) SNP
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I see the look in your eye and I will try to finish my speech in a little less time than that. Today is an opportunity to prom...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
What the cabinet secretary said about having to overcome societal norms is correct. The cabinet secretary will be aware of the fairly significant discrepan...
Roseanna Cunningham SNP
We are looking at the issue very carefully because the difference is significant and we need to understand how it has come about. It will not have happened o...
Siobhan McMahon (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I thank the cabinet secretary and the Government for holding this debate to celebrate Scottish apprenticeship week, and I welcome the money that the cabinet ...
Mike MacKenzie (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) SNP
As the person—I think—who trained the first female joiner in Argyll well over 20 years ago, I note, as I am sure Liam McArthur will confirm, that Orkney Isla...
Siobhan McMahon Lab
Yes, I totally agree, but, depressingly, the example that the member gave is just one in 20 years. I know that that was supposed to be positive, but we have ...
Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
I will continue on the theme of common purpose and agreement. We, too welcome the debate, which takes place as we approach Scottish apprenticeship week and w...
The Minister for Youth and Women’s Employment (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
Will the member take a brief intervention?
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott) Con
The member is in her final minute.
Mary Scanlon Con
I am running out of time—sorry. Another concern is that, although I welcome the Government’s announcements on modern apprenticeship starts, we need to look ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
We move to the open debate with six-minute speeches. I call on Gordon MacDonald, followed by Iain Gray. We are very tight for time today. 15:48
Gordon MacDonald (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP) SNP
The focus for too long, across not just Scotland but also the United Kingdom, has been the view of some parents and educationists that the only path to a suc...
Iain Gray (East Lothian) (Lab) Lab
The story of my family and of what happened in the generation between my father and me is—I think—a pretty typical one for the time. My dad left school at 14...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
You must draw to a close, please.
Iain Gray Lab
It is also true that the route through night school that my dad followed is now completely closed because of the changes in our college sector. If we really...
George Adam (Paisley) (SNP) SNP
I welcome this debate, which takes place in the build-up to next week’s Scottish apprenticeship week. Over the years, I have met many of the training organi...
Mark Griffin (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I welcome the opportunity to speak in this debate on Scottish apprenticeship week. The commission on developing Scotland’s young workforce rightly highlighte...
Nigel Don (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) SNP
It is amazing how quickly apprenticeship week comes around each year. I am looking forward once again to hosting an event in the Parliament. It takes place n...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
As other members have done, I welcome the fact that we are having this debate in the run-up to Scottish apprenticeship week. In that context, I very much loo...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
You must close, please.
Liam McArthur LD
The Government has a decent story to tell on modern apprenticeships, but as the Equality and Human Rights Commission has observed: “we are missing a trick b...
Dennis Robertson (Aberdeenshire West) (SNP) SNP
We are here to celebrate the opportunities for people who are going into apprenticeships. I have listened very carefully to other members on areas in which o...
Hanzala Malik (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
It is a pleasure to talk about Scottish apprenticeship week 2015. I am glad to see that the target set for 20,000 modern apprenticeship starts each year is o...
Roseanna Cunningham SNP
I listened carefully to Hanzala Malik’s comments and I understand that, although he welcomes some things, he has some concerns and criticisms. I would like t...
Hanzala Malik Lab
I could give the cabinet secretary so many. If the Presiding Officer gave me the time, I could give her examples all day.
Roseanna Cunningham SNP
Can he give me one thing?
Hanzala Malik Lab
To satisfy her appetite I will give her one thing that the Government can do. It could create an organisation with a structure that speaks to young minority ...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I reiterate our support for the Scottish Government’s motion and the priority that is placed on this very important issue. I add my support for Mary Scanlon’...
Roseanna Cunningham SNP
We have not covered all the relevant issues, because there has not been time in this debate about apprenticeships, but would the member accept that the growt...