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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 03 February 2015

03 Feb 2015 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Community Empowerment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

The bill contains some provisions with which I agree and some with which I do not. I welcome the principle of community empowerment, but I am not sure that the bill will truly empower communities in the most appropriate way.

Although there have been areas of broad agreement, I will raise a number of concerns that remain, in the hope that further discussion will help to resolve the issues. It is vital that key terms in the bill be defined properly, which unfortunately does not appear to be the case. In addition, it is a fundamental point that bills must be costed before they are put to Parliament for approval. As yet, that has not happened. I welcome the general provisions regarding allotments, but wish for greater clarity on them as the bill progresses.

Before I elaborate on the aspects of the bill on which some work is needed, I reiterate my agreement with the principle of enabling communities to have a greater say in their areas. However, I am not sure that the bill would empower communities in the most appropriate way.

Furthermore, it is vital that definitions of when a community’s right to buy can be enforced be set out very clearly. An absolute right to buy without strict and obvious conditions would set a very damaging precedent that would be neither fair nor in Scotland’s best interests. My colleague Alex Fergusson will elaborate on those points.

One of the key aspects of the bill that is to be assessed as it passes through the Parliament is the estimate of the costs that will arise as a result of its provisions. In its report, the committee expresses its concern that best estimates of costs arising from all provisions have not been provided, despite the requirements of standing orders, as Mr Rowley said. I feel the need to reiterate those concerns in the strongest terms, because that omission in particular, regarding asset transfer or participation requests, is a serious matter that must be addressed before the bill goes to stage 2.

Members of Parliament should not be expected to debate accurately the merits of the bill without proper costings; we cannot be expected to sign a blank cheque. We may hear the excuse that there are difficulties in quantifying future costs arising from provisions that will depend on the amount of demand, but that is no excuse, since the committee and Parliament expect estimates within ranges. I am sure that many members share my concerns in that regard; I expect that the concerns will be addressed as soon as possible.

I welcome the bill’s aims to make clear provisions regarding allotments. They are valuable to many people and it is important to explore how we can help. Accordingly, I agree with a number of the provisions. However, I would like to raise two particular aspects that I believe should be considered. The first concerns provisions regarding the size of an allotment plot. The committee heard points regarding traditional plot sizes. People were right to highlight the need for plots to be of sufficient size, but it is perhaps unwise to assume that all allotment holders wish to use them for the same reasons and for the same purpose. For example, some people use allotments purely as a hobby, rather than as a means to feed a family.

Furthermore, different areas will have varying local demands and differences regarding available space, as we heard in connection with Fort William. The point that I am trying to underline is that a balance must be struck. Allotment holders deserve a reasonable sized plot, but local authorities need flexibility to adapt to local circumstances and local demand. With that in mind, as we have heard, the Scottish Allotments and Gardens Society suggested that a particular size could be a reference standard that could be halved or quartered, rather than being an obligatory standard. That is worth detailed consideration. However, it remains sensible for local authorities to have the flexibility to offer plot sizes that are most suitable locally.

The second point that I would like to make on allotments is that, in the interests of fairness, no supplier of grown produce should be excluded through legislation from selling the produce locally in markets or shops. It is only fair that new producers are able to establish themselves without undue boundaries, and local consumers should be able to decide for themselves what they want to buy.

Before I conclude my remarks, I would like to return to what I see as being one of the most important points to be made about the bill, which is that it lacks clear and unambiguous definitions in many areas. For example, I welcome the duty that the bill places on local authorities to establish and maintain a register of all property and assets that are held by them for the common good. That duty will, amongst other things, help to increase transparency. However, the definition of “common good” is not set out clearly, which might result in confusion during the bill’s implementation, as well as opportunities for provisions to be either extended or avoided.

I hope that today’s debate shows a degree of agreement around some aspects of the bill, even though pressing concerns remain over many provisions.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-12220, in the name of Marco Biagi, on the Community Empowerment (Scotland) Bill. Mr Biagi, you have 14 mi...
The Minister for Local Government and Community Empowerment (Marco Biagi) SNP
Thank you, Presiding Officer—and I begin this stage 1 debate by thanking a lot of other people, too. Although “stage 1” suggests that we are at the first sta...
Bruce Crawford (Stirling) (SNP) SNP
On allotments, I think that all members have received a piece of lobbying from the Scottish Allotments and Gardens Society. For whatever reason, the society ...
Marco Biagi SNP
On Friday, I spoke to Ian Welsh of the Scottish Allotments and Gardens Society. I committed to consulting on the use of one of the powers that the bill will ...
Ken Macintosh (Eastwood) (Lab) Lab
Will the minister take an intervention?
Marco Biagi SNP
I am afraid that I am in my final minute. On Saturday, I will visit a charrette hosted by the Glasgow canal regeneration partnership, where the community wi...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith) Lab
At this stage of the debate, we have a little time in hand if members wish to take interventions. I call Kevin Stewart to speak on behalf of the Local Gover...
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) SNP
I am pleased to speak in this debate on behalf of my colleagues in the Local Government and Regeneration Committee. I thank the current and past members of t...
Joan McAlpine (South Scotland) (SNP) SNP
On compelling organisations to do things, Kevin Stewart will be aware that the Scottish Woodlot Association has expressed concerns about the Forestry Act 196...
Kevin Stewart SNP
Andy Brown of the Scottish Woodlot Association was in touch with the committee on Sunday and yesterday. He is pleased that we have recommended that Forestry ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
I am afraid that I must ask you to come to a close.
Kevin Stewart SNP
Part 7 relates to allotments. We have already heard a little about that from members. We have made recommendations on that, too. Part 8 deals with non-dome...
Alex Rowley (Cowdenbeath) (Lab) Lab
Lyndon Johnson said: “You do not examine legislation in the light of the benefits it will convey if properly administered, but in the light of the wrongs it...
Kevin Stewart SNP
Will Alex Rowley give way?
Alex Rowley Lab
I will not, at this stage. I raise that point not to highlight concerns about local government finance, but to argue that if the moneys are not available, t...
Kevin Stewart SNP
The committee was divided on that point, but it would be fair to say that there are some concerns. The Scottish Community Alliance director, Angus Hardie, s...
Alex Rowley Lab
I have said that the Scottish Labour Party absolutely supports the principle of community empowerment. However, there are serious questions around finance th...
Anne McTaggart (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Alex Rowley referred in his opening comments to poor legislation and the challenges in the bill. Does he agree with the latest statement from the Scottish Al...
Alex Rowley Lab
I should probably declare an interest as a very keen allotment grower. There needs to be further discussion with the Scottish Allotments and Gardens Society,...
Marco Biagi SNP
On the point about discussion with the Scottish Allotments and Gardens Society, I have been out and visited an allotment, and met the society to discuss the ...
Alex Rowley Lab
I agree with the minister that the five points that the society makes will form the basis of a discussion. The letter that the society has submitted highlig...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
You need to draw to a close, please.
Alex Rowley Lab
I will draw to a close. We must reconsider the right to request to participate, because we cannot have it without a proper appeals system. Scottish Labour ...
Cameron Buchanan (Lothian) (Con) Con
The bill contains some provisions with which I agree and some with which I do not. I welcome the principle of community empowerment, but I am not sure that t...
Alex Rowley Lab
Does Cameron Buchanan agree that it is therefore crucial that we have some kind of financial estimates of the costs that could be incurred, if we are serious...
Cameron Buchanan Con
It is essential that we have estimates of costs, or the bill cannot proceed. We have not had those estimates. It is important that, in the provisions on all...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
We come to the open debate. Speeches should be of six minutes, please. 15:03
Rob Gibson (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP) SNP
The Rural Affairs, Climate Change and Environment Committee considered part 4 of the bill and reported our views to the Local Government and Regeneration Com...
Sarah Boyack (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
There is strong support across the chamber for extending land reform to urban communities. Part of the process has to be about learning from the lessons of t...
Michael Russell (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) SNP
The bill is very welcome. It is useful to state at the outset, as minister did, that this is about mindsets more than minutiae. We cannot empower communities...