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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 03 February 2015

03 Feb 2015 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Community Empowerment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

I agree with the minister that the five points that the society makes will form the basis of a discussion.

The letter that the society has submitted highlights a missed opportunity to link the bill to the food strategy and to health and wellbeing through the community planning partnerships, and to build its aims into local community plans. We should be able to have those discussions, and I am happy to join the minister in engaging in them. As I said, I am a very keen allotment grower and I would like to see allotments expand.

I will quickly highlight a few other issues. Inclusion Scotland states that

“in absence of genuine and meaningful community capacity building and engagement, the opportunities created by the Bill will not be”

equally distributed. It goes on to state that under part 3 of the bill

“Communities which are the most marginalised, fractured and impoverished are likely to benefit least whilst communities already rich in resources and human assets are likely to benefit most through their acquisition of new assets”.

The Local Government and Regeneration Committee highlights the same points, which are genuine and need to be taken on board.

Inclusion Scotland’s briefing also highlights the issue of how “community” is defined. I was quite surprised to see that, because I thought that the Government was looking at the definition more widely. However, I discovered from reading the cabinet secretary’s evidence in committee that that was not what was said, so we need to take on board Inclusion Scotland’s point.

To go back to the point that I made at the start and that the minister made in his opening speech, if we are serious about tackling inequalities and poverty, we must recognise that empowerment is one part of that and getting community planning right is another. In a previous role, I met the Cabinet Secretary for Finance, Employment and Sustainable Growth and had a discussion about that. I am absolutely committed to community planning, but we must recognise the points that Inclusion Scotland makes, including that it believes

“that the requirement placed on community groups to request participation disempowers rather than empowers communities, as it leaves the power with the public bodies, which should instead have a duty to … engage with communities.”

There are some serious points in that that we must pick up and consider if we are serious about the principles of the bill. They are all highlighted in the evidence to the committee.

This morning, I read another briefing that came from Barnardo’s, Oxfam and others. I note that they talk about participatory budgeting. The minister has said that he is interested in that, and some pots of money have been made available.

I am a big believer in the idea that there is in Scotland a fourth tier of government—community councils. As we discussed in the committee, many people criticise them because they often tell us what they are against rather than what they are for. In my constituency, three community councils had elections only a few months ago. The turnout was 22 or 23 per cent, which is not bad when we consider that it was 27 per cent in the by-election in Kirkcaldy, which I thought was good for a by-election. That means that 20-odd per cent of the communities in Kelty, Cardenden and Lumphinnans turned out to elect local community councillors.

If we go back to the Local Government and Regeneration Committee’s previous report on empowerment and voting patterns, we see the argument that, if councils are perceived to have more powers, more people are likely to come out and vote. It is likewise with the fourth tier of government in Scotland. It is worth exploring passing budgets down through participatory budgeting to local level to empower communities to take local action.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-12220, in the name of Marco Biagi, on the Community Empowerment (Scotland) Bill. Mr Biagi, you have 14 mi...
The Minister for Local Government and Community Empowerment (Marco Biagi) SNP
Thank you, Presiding Officer—and I begin this stage 1 debate by thanking a lot of other people, too. Although “stage 1” suggests that we are at the first sta...
Bruce Crawford (Stirling) (SNP) SNP
On allotments, I think that all members have received a piece of lobbying from the Scottish Allotments and Gardens Society. For whatever reason, the society ...
Marco Biagi SNP
On Friday, I spoke to Ian Welsh of the Scottish Allotments and Gardens Society. I committed to consulting on the use of one of the powers that the bill will ...
Ken Macintosh (Eastwood) (Lab) Lab
Will the minister take an intervention?
Marco Biagi SNP
I am afraid that I am in my final minute. On Saturday, I will visit a charrette hosted by the Glasgow canal regeneration partnership, where the community wi...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith) Lab
At this stage of the debate, we have a little time in hand if members wish to take interventions. I call Kevin Stewart to speak on behalf of the Local Gover...
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) SNP
I am pleased to speak in this debate on behalf of my colleagues in the Local Government and Regeneration Committee. I thank the current and past members of t...
Joan McAlpine (South Scotland) (SNP) SNP
On compelling organisations to do things, Kevin Stewart will be aware that the Scottish Woodlot Association has expressed concerns about the Forestry Act 196...
Kevin Stewart SNP
Andy Brown of the Scottish Woodlot Association was in touch with the committee on Sunday and yesterday. He is pleased that we have recommended that Forestry ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
I am afraid that I must ask you to come to a close.
Kevin Stewart SNP
Part 7 relates to allotments. We have already heard a little about that from members. We have made recommendations on that, too. Part 8 deals with non-dome...
Alex Rowley (Cowdenbeath) (Lab) Lab
Lyndon Johnson said: “You do not examine legislation in the light of the benefits it will convey if properly administered, but in the light of the wrongs it...
Kevin Stewart SNP
Will Alex Rowley give way?
Alex Rowley Lab
I will not, at this stage. I raise that point not to highlight concerns about local government finance, but to argue that if the moneys are not available, t...
Kevin Stewart SNP
The committee was divided on that point, but it would be fair to say that there are some concerns. The Scottish Community Alliance director, Angus Hardie, s...
Alex Rowley Lab
I have said that the Scottish Labour Party absolutely supports the principle of community empowerment. However, there are serious questions around finance th...
Anne McTaggart (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Alex Rowley referred in his opening comments to poor legislation and the challenges in the bill. Does he agree with the latest statement from the Scottish Al...
Alex Rowley Lab
I should probably declare an interest as a very keen allotment grower. There needs to be further discussion with the Scottish Allotments and Gardens Society,...
Marco Biagi SNP
On the point about discussion with the Scottish Allotments and Gardens Society, I have been out and visited an allotment, and met the society to discuss the ...
Alex Rowley Lab
I agree with the minister that the five points that the society makes will form the basis of a discussion. The letter that the society has submitted highlig...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
You need to draw to a close, please.
Alex Rowley Lab
I will draw to a close. We must reconsider the right to request to participate, because we cannot have it without a proper appeals system. Scottish Labour ...
Cameron Buchanan (Lothian) (Con) Con
The bill contains some provisions with which I agree and some with which I do not. I welcome the principle of community empowerment, but I am not sure that t...
Alex Rowley Lab
Does Cameron Buchanan agree that it is therefore crucial that we have some kind of financial estimates of the costs that could be incurred, if we are serious...
Cameron Buchanan Con
It is essential that we have estimates of costs, or the bill cannot proceed. We have not had those estimates. It is important that, in the provisions on all...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
We come to the open debate. Speeches should be of six minutes, please. 15:03
Rob Gibson (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP) SNP
The Rural Affairs, Climate Change and Environment Committee considered part 4 of the bill and reported our views to the Local Government and Regeneration Com...
Sarah Boyack (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
There is strong support across the chamber for extending land reform to urban communities. Part of the process has to be about learning from the lessons of t...
Michael Russell (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) SNP
The bill is very welcome. It is useful to state at the outset, as minister did, that this is about mindsets more than minutiae. We cannot empower communities...