Holyrood, made browsable

Hansard

Every contribution to the Official Report — chamber and committee — searchable in one place. Pulled from data.parliament.scot, indexed for full-text search, linked through to every MSP.

129
Current MSPs
415
MSPs ever elected
13
Parties on record
2,355,091
Hansard contributions
1999–2026
Coverage span
Official Report

Search Hansard contributions

Clear
Showing 0 of 2,355,091 contributions in session S6, 16 Apr 2026 – 16 May 2026. Latest 30 days: 148. Coverage: 12 May 1999 — 14 May 2026.

No contributions match those filters.

← Back to list
Committee

Local Government and Regeneration Committee 21 January 2015

21 Jan 2015 · S4 · Local Government and Regeneration Committee
Item of business
Air Weapons and Licensing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Dr Cooper Watch on SPTV
Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and thank you ever so much for inviting me. My presentation will address issues specific to licensing of taxis, which in my definition will include hackney carriages, private hire cars and other operators of vehicle types that offer a comparable service, which have in some places been titled transportation network companies—examples include Uber, uberX, Lyft and others that provide services in a taxi-like way. If I mention trade names and company names in my commentary, that is intended to give you an example of a service type; it is not intended to single out any company. I commend the Parliament and the Government for their desire and effort to develop taxi and private hire car legislation. It is appropriate and commendable to provide a legislative framework that facilitates and protects in the public interest. I believe that legislation needs to be aware of the current market, current change in the market and future activities that might impact on its effectiveness and implementation. I contend that the bill fails to address the needs of the transformed market that is likely to emerge in the very near future. I highlight the view that, in framing legislation, it is easy to suffer from a belief that the legislative framework itself is sufficient to ensure appropriate supply. Evidence from locations where the market has been transformed does not uphold that view. Many of the new entrants sit between legislative instruments. It is important that that point is made clear. The market in its transformed state will be very different from the market that we see now. I suppose that the most important question is: what is a transformed market? I highlight that it is the opposite of the legacy market—the one that we know and which has operated successfully for a significant time, with legislation dating back to 1847 and even prior to that still being in force in some places in the United Kingdom. The transformed market will include new technology operators—predominantly those associated with smartphone applications, otherwise known as apps. Those exist in a number of generations and have been present in the taxi and taxi-like industries for about five years. We have had six generations of apps, which suggests a rapid evolution in the market of one revolution per eight months or thereabouts, as opposed to one revolution in legislation for taxis every 80 years or so. That difference is significant. The transformed market will include quasi-taxis—vehicles that operate in the taxi market and provide a taxi-like service, which are often indistinguishable from taxis to those who wish to use them. Those operator types have in the United States of America been named transportation network companies, which are often abbreviated to TNCs. New services will spread across licensing categories to offer services from a variety of traditional licensing distinctions and many services that sit outwith current legislation. The transformed market will facilitate service provision by private individuals offering trips in their private cars under what is in effect a private contract. That does not fit readily into the distinction of ride sharing, which is a term that has been applied in some locations. In my definition, ride sharing is a positive public contribution that offers a ride for part of a trip that would exist in any case, whereas TNCs or quasi-taxis provide ride sharing on a commercial basis for profit. It is worth noting that the transformed market and specifically the apps that facilitate transportation will often obscure from the user the category of vehicle that is being engaged and thus its legality or otherwise. It is appropriate to frame legislation currently, but it needs to be sustainable. The Government and the Parliament need to be aware of the transformed market in developing legislation and must legislate to an extent that supports policy in the new market dynamic. I will touch on taxi and private hire car distinctions. Hackney carriage and private hire car services are distinct only in the legacy market. They are consistent only in their legislative differences. Apps in effect provide an electronic hail to quasi-taxis, which removes one of the few distinctions of the hackney carriage. Number constraint, which is a part of some hackney carriage markets, might become ineffective under the current testing of it if the regulation that allows for it is unenforceable. Number constraint might also become irrelevant if its market impact is lost. The measurements that are applied to number constraint, commonly known as measures of significant unmet demand or SUD, will become impossible to use in their current form in a transformed market. That does not exclude the possibility of testing and measurement, but that requires change. That will have an impact on all other areas of regulatory control, to wit, quality control and economic constraint—fares and leases. The three elements of quantity, quality and economic controls are completely interlinked and cannot be divorced from one another. If I may, I will touch briefly on taxi numbers and quantity constraints.

In the same item of business

The Convener SNP
Item 2 is our sixth oral evidence session on the Air Weapons and Licensing (Scotland) Bill. We will take evidence from witnesses on the provisions that relat...
Dr James Cooper (Edinburgh Napier University)
Thank you ever so much for inviting me to give evidence, convener. I have prepared a short presentation for the committee and I would be delighted to take qu...
The Convener SNP
Please go ahead.
Dr Cooper
Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and thank you ever so much for inviting me. My presentation will address issues specific to licensing of taxis, which in ...
The Convener SNP
Please be brief, as we have quite a lot of questions to get through.
Dr Cooper
The concept of quantity restraint has been based on a view of market failure and a lack of equilibrium. Concerns change when the market is transformed. The c...
The Convener SNP
You have highlighted some areas that the committee has already asked the Government for clarification on. We posed questions to the Government on the growth ...
Dr Cooper
The technology appears to have moved so quickly that any response needs to be aware of its current and future development. It is true that the taxi industry ...
The Convener SNP
Uber has tried to be somewhat conciliatory this week in response to criticisms that have been made. It faces legal challenges in a number of countries and ha...
Dr Cooper
The question is difficult to answer, as evidence suggests that most cities and Governments have been powerless to control the excesses of some of the TNCs. T...
The Convener SNP
Do you think that we have the flexibility under the current legislation and the bill to make changes in law if necessary, should Uber or others try to enter ...
Dr Cooper
I am afraid that I do not. The bill as it stands reflects the legacy market alone and will not be fit for the following market.
The Convener SNP
Do you disagree with the statement that I read out earlier from a civil servant in response to our questions?
Dr Cooper
I am afraid that I do.
The Convener SNP
What is your reason for that?
Dr Cooper
I believe that Uber accrues a benefit in being seen to be on the wrong side of the law. It gains notoriety among its user group and benefits from that positi...
The Convener SNP
I will bring in Mr Rowley in a minute as he wants to ask a supplementary question, but first I have a question about the monopoly of the application of the a...
Dr Cooper
The contention was that it may become monopolistic. The Edinburgh hackney carriage apps are extremely good and I can recommend them. The benefits of the tec...
Alex Rowley (Cowdenbeath) (Lab) Lab
I have spoken to people who tell me that the bill does not reflect the transformed market. What does the bill need to do to reflect that market and are there...
Dr Cooper
There are examples of legislation, in a transformed market, that exist post-app development; I point you to the Washington DC, chapter 31 regulations and the...
The Convener SNP
Would it be fair to say that in Scotland we have not yet entered what you call a transformed market?
Dr Cooper
That is a fair comment. I believe that Scotland is on the brink of entering the transformed market and will develop exceptionally quickly, once it starts.
The Convener SNP
You say “on the brink”, but do you have any idea when the transformed market is likely to happen here?
Dr Cooper
I understand that Uber Britannia has applied for licences in Glasgow and Edinburgh. They will be granted and that company will begin to operate a variety of ...
Cameron Buchanan (Lothian) (Con) Con
Do you consider that the underlying reasons underpinning the need for the licensing of taxis and private hire cars are necessary? You said in your submission...
Dr Cooper
If we wait until the market is settled, we will have five or six more generations. The problem is that the technology will continue to change; what we see no...
Cameron Buchanan Con
What are the advantages of the two-tier system that we have at the moment, with private hire and hackney carriages? Are there any advantages?
Dr Cooper
Today in 2015, yes; tomorrow in 2015, no.
Cameron Buchanan Con
Right—that is what I thought. Should we be recasting the proposed measures or slightly changing them? Should we take them out of the bill and reform or tight...
Dr Cooper
I certainly agree that they need tightening. I do not have an alternative text for you, for which my apologies. The single-tier/dual-tier system question is...