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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 02 April 2015

02 Apr 2015 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Prisoners (Control of Release) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Ferguson, Patricia Lab Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn Watch on SPTV

As an MSP who is not a member of the Justice Committee and is therefore not as familiar with the systems and processes that are involved in our application of criminal justice, it has always seemed to me that the sentencing of those who are convicted of crimes is an area in which greater clarity and more work to explain the system are needed.

Nowhere has that been more the case over the years than in the debates that have taken place on ending automatic early release. I had hoped that the reforms that we had been promised by the Scottish Government would help to provide clarity to do that, but my reading of the bill and the report by the Justice Committee suggest that that is not the case. In my view, the proposals in the bill do not go far enough in providing protection for our communities.

I am speaking about the bill as it is currently drafted, but we are in a rather strange position today, given that we are debating at stage 1 a bill that will be fundamentally different by the time it emerges from stage 2 consideration. Having said that, I applaud the cabinet secretary’s willingness to lodge the amendments that he has outlined today because I think that they will help to make the situation better and clearer. I am sorry that he has found himself in a position in which that has been necessary; I am sure that the problem is not of his making, but he certainly seems to be stepping up to the plate and trying to resolve it.

It seems that we are looking at only one part of the system in the bill, certainly as it is currently drafted: the end point when a prisoner is released. However, we also need to consider the point at which a prisoner is sentenced to ensure that our sentencing policy itself is correct and transparent.

The fact that the sentencing council, which was legislated for in 2010, will not begin its work until the last quarter of this year seems to me to be wrong. It would surely have been better to allow the policy proposals that are contained in the bill to be part of a comprehensive package of measures that could have been influenced by the sentencing council. I am not suggesting that there should necessarily be a delay in putting forward the provisions, but I believe that they would have benefited from consideration by a sentencing council had it been introduced prior to this point.

The Law Society of Scotland, in its briefing to members, makes the valid point that the most significant—indeed, as Margaret Mitchell highlighted, I believe that the society used the word “radical”—change to custodial sentencing policy in more than 20 years will be introduced by way of a stage 2 amendment to a bill that is already before Parliament.

The Law Society contrasts that with the situation in 1993, when significant changes were last made. At that time, as we know, the changes were made only after the careful consideration of two reports on the matter, one of which had benefited from 14 months of consideration and much discussion within the legal profession and elsewhere.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith) Lab
Good afternoon. The first item of business is a debate on motion S4M-12878, in the name of Michael Matheson, on the Prisoners (Control of Release) (Scotland)...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Michael Matheson) SNP
I begin by apologising for my late arrival, which was entirely my fault and responsibility. I welcome the opportunity to speak in this debate at stage 1 of ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
I call Christine Grahame to speak on behalf of the Justice Committee. 14:46
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) SNP
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I welcome the opportunity to speak in the debate and, as you say, I speak as the convener of the Justice Committee. I will spea...
Elaine Murray (Dumfriesshire) (Lab) Lab
I thank the clerks and the witnesses for their efforts in bringing a lot of issues to the committee’s attention during the stage 1 process. The Scottish Nat...
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
This stage 1 debate on the Prisoners (Control of Release) (Scotland) Bill is an important one. I thank the clerks, the convener and my fellow members of the ...
Christian Allard (North East Scotland) (SNP) SNP
Will Margaret Mitchell take an intervention?
Margaret Mitchell Con
If Mr Allard does not mind, I will make some progress. That is not a precedent that the Scottish Parliament should set or encourage, and nor is the cabinet ...
Nigel Don (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) SNP
I speak on the bill in my capacity as convener of the Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee. Although the bill contains only one delegated power, the com...
Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) SNP
Is it the committee’s view that that is not simply a matter in relation to this bill, but a principle that it wants to apply in similar circumstances in simi...
Nigel Don SNP
Stewart Stevenson’s point is absolutely fair. As a member of the DPLR Committee, he will accept that that is our concern. We have tried to bring principled a...
Roderick Campbell (North East Fife) (SNP) SNP
In historical terms, parole is quite recent, and the Parole Board for Scotland was set up only in 1968. Parole was subject to an important review by Lord Kin...
Jayne Baxter (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
There is little doubt that the criminal justice system in Scotland is in desperate need of reform. The aspect of that system that the bill seeks to address—s...
Christian Allard (North East Scotland) (SNP) SNP
First, I would like to thank all the Justice Committee members and the organisations and individuals who came to give evidence. It was a long session and our...
Patricia Ferguson (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (Lab) Lab
I am sorry to interrupt the member, but my reading of what the Law Society said to members was not that the 2007 act was inadequate but that, if the bill was...
Christian Allard SNP
What I said was my interpretation of what the Law Society said. As I was saying, it all comes down to implementation. If the Government has a problem with im...
Alison McInnes (North East Scotland) (LD) LD
I apologise to members in advance, as I have a sore throat. If automatic early release for long-term prisoners is to be abolished, the alternative must pass...
Gil Paterson (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) SNP
I am pleased to take part in the debate as a member of the Justice Committee. The ending of automatic early release for prisoners is seen by a large cross-...
Margaret McDougall (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
As we have heard, the bill before us—which proposes to end automatic early release for sex offenders serving four years or more and other offenders serving 1...
Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) SNP
I very much welcome the opportunity to speak on this important subject. We all know that control over the release of prisoners is a subject that has needed t...
Christina McKelvie (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (SNP) SNP
I am not, and never have been, a member of the Justice Committee, but looking back over the eight years that I have spent in the Parliament and the debates o...
Patricia Ferguson (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (Lab) Lab
As an MSP who is not a member of the Justice Committee and is therefore not as familiar with the systems and processes that are involved in our application o...
Christine Grahame SNP
Does the member accept that the Justice Committee will have the opportunity to take evidence on what might be substantial amendments at stage 2 if it wishes ...
Patricia Ferguson Lab
I absolutely accept that, but it is still quite a strange way to legislate. The committee and Parliament should really have had those materials at stage 1 if...
Clare Adamson (Central Scotland) (SNP) SNP
The decisions that we make as the bill goes through Parliament will affect our prison communities. A prison community is much more than the prisoners; the st...
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Ind) Ind
I, too, thank the many people who gave the evidence that formed the basis of the Justice Committee’s report. I will quote straight away from one of them, Pro...
Annabel Goldie (West Scotland) (Con) Con
The debate has revealed a conundrum. People either support or oppose automatic early release. Those who support it want it; those who oppose it do not want i...
Christian Allard SNP
Will the member give way?
Annabel Goldie Con
Let me just expand my argument. As a political principle, my party’s credentials could not be clearer on the issue. In 2007, it was heartening to find that ...
Stewart Stevenson SNP
Will the member take an intervention?