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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 01 April 2015

01 Apr 2015 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Economy and Finances

I am not quite sure whether that was Chic Brodie playing sudoku with a few numbers. It was probably nothing much more than that.

In all seriousness, the Scottish Government has thus far ducked the question, which is why we want this debate. It has not put forward its own figures and it has given very opaque answers. A couple of weeks ago, I asked John Swinney whether he accepted that we would be worse off in the short term. His answer, word for word, was:

“I have set out the fact that, by exercising responsibilities in accordance with the needs and priorities of the people of Scotland, we have the ability to achieve some of the improvements in economic performance that I have set out”.—[Official Report, 11 March 2015; c 27.]

That was his answer to a direct question. I hear Alex Johnstone ask what that means. I do not know whether it means yes or no.

The Scottish Government has not only ducked the question; it has published a document with a very partial analysis. If one were being cynical, one might say that that was a deliberately partial analysis of some of the effects. That is serious. Just a couple of weeks ago, the Scottish Government published “Benefits of Improved Economic Performance” and gave the scenario of what it called “Full Revenue Retention”. It concluded that its analysis demonstrates that our economy would be improved, our overall impact on the economy would be increased, and we could

“reinvest the proceeds from successful economic policies”.

The Scottish Government missed two critical factors. First, it showed potential upsides if there were greater productivity, greater business investment and a boost to exports. Crucially, it missed out how it would achieve any of those things. Its policies could easily fail, just as they could succeed. It is very easy to say what would happen if something happened; the Scottish Government did not demonstrate how.

Secondly, and more important, the Scottish Government looked at only one side of the profit and loss account. It looked at some potentially increased revenues that we might get if there were growth, but it ignored entirely the prospect that we would lose all the Barnett consequentials—the additional £1,200 per head that we currently get in public spending—as if that did not exist. The Scottish Government went to the trouble of producing a computer-generated equilibrium model over a 10-year time period for total factor productivity, but it completely and blatantly ignored the basic calculations on full fiscal autonomy.

That is a contrast with what happened two years ago, when the Scottish Government published “Scotland’s Balance Sheet”. In 2011-12, Scotland had a slightly lower deficit than the UK had, and John Swinney repeatedly said in the chamber and out there in public that, because we had a slightly lower deficit, that meant that we could have had higher spending and lower taxation in Scotland and still ended up with a lower deficit than the rest of the UK. If John Swinney was correct then—he said that dozens of times—that must mean by implication that, with the higher deficit in Scotland now and the projected increasing deficit, if we had full fiscal autonomy in Scotland, we could have lower public spending and higher taxation and still end up with a higher deficit than the UK.

We have pushed the Scottish Government to publish the figures so that members and the people of Scotland can look at the numbers transparently to see what the Scottish Government is actually planning for the people of Scotland.

I move,

That the Parliament notes that the Scottish Government seeks to achieve full fiscal autonomy for Scotland within the UK; notes that a number of experts predict a weaker fiscal position for Scotland should full fiscal autonomy be achieved and is concerned about the tighter fiscal challenge that could be faced; believes that a potential net fiscal deficit of over double that of the UK in 2015-16, as outlined by the Institute for Fiscal Studies, would be damaging for the Scottish economy; calls on the Scottish Government to arrange for publication of an update to the Outlook for Scotland’s Public Finances to take into account changes to the projected public finances since its original publication in May 2014 and to reflect the current Scottish Government policy of seeking full fiscal autonomy; believes that the update should be conducted and published by the Scottish Fiscal Commission, and calls on the Scottish Government to publish an updated oil and gas analytical bulletin as soon as possible.

14:55  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith) Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-12857, in the name of Gavin Brown, on Scotland’s economy and finances. 14:40
Gavin Brown (Lothian) (Con) Con
The Scottish Conservatives want to have a focused and analytical debate on the subject, specifically on the issue of full fiscal autonomy and the likely effe...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
I wonder whether the member accepts the principle that the Scottish Government and the SNP want both more powers for Scotland and the best possible deal for ...
Gavin Brown Con
I am not sure whether Mr Mason simply does not understand the arithmetic or whether that is actually an admission from Mr Mason, who is a straightforward cha...
Mike MacKenzie (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Gavin Brown Con
Perhaps we are about to get the answer to my question from Mr MacKenzie.
Mike MacKenzie SNP
I wonder whether the IFS calculation that the member has laid out has taken into account the potential outcomes of the forthcoming UK election and how it has...
Gavin Brown Con
The IFS figure is based on the projections set out by the UK Government at the time of the March budget, so no—the IFS figure does not take into account what...
Chic Brodie (South Scotland) (SNP) SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Gavin Brown Con
Not at the moment, Mr Brodie. We see from Fiscal Affairs Scotland, another expert group, figures for 2019-20. I have given members the likely figure for 201...
Chic Brodie SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Gavin Brown Con
If we look at the projections for next year’s GERS figures, we see that that is not true. Not a single independent respected economist or forecaster on the p...
Chic Brodie SNP
A man of great thought. Mr Brown goes on about the numbers. Can he explain why, under the country and regional analysis adjustments in 2012-13, which fed th...
Gavin Brown Con
I am not quite sure whether that was Chic Brodie playing sudoku with a few numbers. It was probably nothing much more than that. In all seriousness, the Sco...
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Finance, Constitution and Economy (John Swinney) SNP
Scotland requires the social and economic powers that are necessary to reflect the people of Scotland’s needs and preferences and to enable the people of Sco...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
John Swinney SNP
If Mr Fraser allows me to make a bit of progress, I will give way in a second. In considering those issues and making our case, I should point out that we a...
Gavin Brown Con
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
John Swinney SNP
I will give way to Mr Brown, and I remember that I promised to give way to Mr Fraser, too.
Gavin Brown Con
I certainly do not think that we are incapable of doing what the cabinet secretary has suggested, but I do think that the Scottish Government should be candi...
John Swinney SNP
That was not the inference that I took from Mr Brown’s speech. With the full policy levers of independence, we could improve on the performance that we have ...
Murdo Fraser Con
The question that I wished to ask the cabinet secretary is this: if he is right in his analysis and if he is right in saying that the Scottish Government is ...
John Swinney SNP
I will come on to address how that will come about, but first I want to go through some of the implications of different responsibilities being exercised in ...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab
The IFS also said that there would be a £7.6 billion gap. If we take the assumptions about the country’s economic performance that are made in the Government...
John Swinney SNP
Jackie Baillie passes by the caveat that the IFS included, which is that the economy’s performance can be influenced as a consequence of exercising the respo...
Gavin Brown Con
I am grateful to the cabinet secretary for giving way for a second time. In his view, the correct timescale for independence was 18 months. In his view, what...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
You are in your final minute, cabinet secretary.
John Swinney SNP
Thank you, Presiding Officer. The timescale would inevitably be a product of negotiation with the UK Government. I can set out my view all I want, but I mus...
Jackie Baillie Lab
The cabinet secretary will hear from the Labour Party.
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Order, please. The cabinet secretary is closing. We must hear him.