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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 17 March 2015

17 Mar 2015 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Scotland’s Place in Europe
McGrigor, Jamie Con Highlands and Islands Watch on SPTV

I have only six minutes, so I want to make progress.

The SNP asserts that Scotland has no appetite for a referendum on EU membership, despite the fact that polling has consistently shown that almost 60 per cent of Scots want a referendum, including more than 60 per cent of SNP voters. There is a trace of arrogance in the Scottish Government’s motion, which suggests that it thinks, “We know best, so we won’t trouble you with a direct say on EU membership.” However, it is clear that the majority of Scots want a say.

Our amendment justifiably highlights the need for a referendum that is UK wide, that takes place on a one-person-one-vote basis and in which the question is decided by a simple majority, as in the 1975 referendum. Let us remember that, in the 1975 referendum, the SNP campaigned against continued membership of the common market, whereas the majority of Conservatives—myself included—supported our position in Europe.

The Government’s motion turns that principle on its head, with its cumbersome double-majority proposal, which would split the UK into its constituent parts of Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland in the referendum question. The Government suggests that Scotland should not be forced to leave the EU even if the rest of the UK chooses to do so. It is ironic that the SNP should make a proposal of that nature. I do not recall it arguing in the referendum to break up the United Kingdom that, if another constituent part of the UK did not want to leave, separation would not happen.

As a member of the Parliament’s European and External Relations Committee, I spent a considerable amount of time with colleagues conducting an inquiry into an independent Scotland’s position in the EU. I will not rehash the arguments on whether article 48 or article 49 of the Treaty on European Union should apply. However, I will say that it was shown that an independent Scotland would not automatically be admitted as a member of the EU and, equally, that Scotland could not remain as part of the EU if the UK chose to leave it. The SNP position is simply untenable, and it is conjecture.

Members are probably united on the part in the Government’s motion that speaks about the benefits to Scotland of EU membership through the single market. Access to consumers and businesses on the continent has obviously been of huge economic importance to Scotland. We are also probably united on the reference to the social, cultural and educational benefits of EU membership. To give one example, the benefit of objective 1 status to the Highlands and Islands was the construction of a number of causeways and bridges and other infrastructure projects, which have left a valuable legacy. I emphasise that those benefits were possible only as a result of UK membership of the EU. It is a pity that the Highlands and Islands no longer has objective 1 status.

The proposal for a 2017 referendum has come about for various reasons. Businesses in Scotland and in the rest of the UK find that the extent of European interference in their everyday life is sometimes excessive and that red tape can strangle creativity. People to whom I have spoken over many years continue to feel that the people who take decisions in Brussels are remote and removed from those who elected them, although that does not apply to every decision. There are concerns that the relaxed nature of European rules means that people arriving in the UK are allowed to claim benefits without having worked here. Although EU enlargement is welcome, it must not lead to unmanageable consequences for member states.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-12670, in the name of Humza Yousaf, on Scotland’s place in Europe. 14:21
The Minister for Europe and International Development (Humza Yousaf) SNP
Scotland has been a progressive and integral part of the European Union for the past 40 years. Engagement with the EU and its institutions is a core priority...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
The minister will be aware of the importance of structural funding to the region that I partly represent. At the back end of last year, there was some concer...
Humza Yousaf SNP
That is an issue that the member has raised previously, and I know that he has had reassurances from this Government. We share his concerns, and I am happy t...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
On the issue of TTIP, would the minister accept that we probably have more common ground with some of our European neighbours than we do with the London Gove...
Humza Yousaf SNP
I am doing my best to be as consensual as I can in the debate. The UK Government knows our position and that we are asking for a black-and-white exemption fo...
Dennis Robertson (Aberdeenshire West) (SNP) SNP
Does the minister agree that there is still more to be done within the domestic market to encourage small and medium-sized businesses to look at the potentia...
Humza Yousaf SNP
I agree entirely. Internationalisation is one of the four priorities of Scotland’s economic strategy, which the First Minister and Deputy First Minister laun...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott) Con
Will you draw to a close, please?
Humza Yousaf SNP
I will end on this point. We believe that there should be a double-majority system for that referendum. We believe that Scotland and indeed other parts of th...
Claire Baker (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
I am pleased to be opening this debate for Labour. This is my first opening speech in this area of my portfolio. Previously, as a lead on rural affairs, food...
Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) SNP
Will the member take a brief intervention?
Claire Baker Lab
I ask the member to be brief as I am quite short of time.
Stewart Stevenson SNP
Does the member recall that, when the UK entered the European Union in 1973, most of the major broadcasting and print media organisations had correspondents ...
Claire Baker Lab
I am pleased to say that I do not have much recall of 1973, but the member makes a fair point. It is not just down to politicians. It is also down to our soc...
Humza Yousaf SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Claire Baker Lab
I am in my final minute. Labour does not support a referendum as we know that it will cause uncertainty for business. A referendum is not in the interests o...
Jamie McGrigor (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
I welcome the debate as it gives me the chance to dispel the myths and scaremongering that are coming from members on the Government benches about Scotland’s...
Christian Allard (North East Scotland) (SNP) SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Jamie McGrigor Con
I have only six minutes, so I want to make progress. The SNP asserts that Scotland has no appetite for a referendum on EU membership, despite the fact that ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
Please draw to a close.
Jamie McGrigor Con
I am just going to close. For all those reasons and many more, the need for a referendum on EU membership will become more apparent in the next two years, d...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
We move to the open debate, with speeches of six minutes or thereby. 14:53
Christina McKelvie (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (SNP) SNP
In the past four years, as convener of the European and External Relations Committee, I have learned a lot about Europe, including a lot about its strengths....
Anne McTaggart (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I am pleased to contribute to this debate and to speak in support of Claire Baker’s amendment. At a time when countries are fighting for their right to be p...
Christian Allard (North East Scotland) (SNP) SNP
I start my contribution to this timely and important debate with a 1736 quote that is to be found in the diaries of a French minister, René de Voyer, who was...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
I welcome the debate and I thank Humza Yousaf—or, as I like to call him, the minister—for allowing Parliament this opportunity. The motion and the amendment...
Christian Allard SNP
Will Liam McArthur take an intervention?
Liam McArthur LD
No, thank you. It is too easy to link the SNP’s calls for a retreat from the UK to UKIP’s and the Tories’ calls for a retreat from Europe. There is a remark...
Stewart Maxwell (West Scotland) (SNP) SNP
Scotland is often described as being on the periphery of Europe. Although that may be true in a geographic sense, our strong cultural, historical and politic...