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Committee

Rural Affairs, Climate Change and Environment Committee 11 March 2015

11 Mar 2015 · S4 · Rural Affairs, Climate Change and Environment Committee
Item of business
Community Empowerment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
The mapping requirements that are proposed in part 3A are similar to the mapping requirements in part 3 of the Land Reform (Scotland) Act 2003 on the crofting community right to buy. I propose the group of amendments to replace the proposed mapping requirements in part 3A, taking account of stakeholder feedback in relation to the mapping requirements in part 3 of the 2003 act, and to incorporate the proposed amendments in part 3A of the 2003 act. Currently, the application form that ministers must prescribe requires the community body to identify all rights and interests in the subjects of the application. Those rights and interests are “sewers, pipes, lines, watercourses or other conduits and fences, dykes, ditches or other boundaries in or on the land ... known to the applicant body or the existence of which it is, on reasonably diligent inquiry, capable of ascertaining”. Those requirements are widely recognised as likely to be particularly onerous and complex for a community body. We propose the amendments because we recognise that the current mapping requirements are particularly complex. Ministers will still set out the required information for the application in regulations, but there will no longer be a requirement to include those interests that I mentioned as being considered particularly difficult to identify. The purpose of amendment 73 is to clarify that the part 3A community body is required to include in the application all rights and interests known to the part 3A community body. Amendment 74 removes the provision requiring a part 3A community body to specify “all sewers, pipes, lines, watercourses etc.” and simplifies the mapping requirements to a more reasonable level, in the same way as it does for part 3. 11:00 Amendment 75 removes another particularly onerous provision, which requires a part 3A community body to detail how its “proposed use, development and management of the land” would affect any of the sewers, pipes, lines, watercourses, fences, boundaries and so on. Section 97H sets out the matters about which ministers have to be satisfied before they can grant consent to an application. Section 97H(c) provides that, in order to approve an application, ministers must be satisfied that, if the owner of the land were to remain as its owner, that ownership would be inconsistent with “furthering the achievement of sustainable development in relation to the land”. The purpose of amendment 45 is to introduce a different standard of test of which ministers must be satisfied in order to approve the application. The test that is proposed in the amendment is that ministers must refuse consent unless they are satisfied that it is unlikely that the owner’s continuing ownership would further the achievement of sustainable development in relation to the land. Section 97G(6) states that the part 3A community body must demonstrate in its application that its proposals are “compatible with furthering the achievement of sustainable development”. When considering section 97H(c), ministers must satisfy themselves that, if the land were to remain with its current owner, “that ownership would be inconsistent with furthering the achievement of sustainable development in relation to the land”. That is not something that the part 3A community body is required to demonstrate. Ministers will come to a decision based on all the facts and circumstances. Of course, the part 3A community body has the option to demonstrate in its application that it is in the public interest for the application to be approved because the current ownership would not be consistent with the sustainable development of the land, but that is not a requirement. Equally, it would be open to the landowner to make representations to the effect that their continued ownership would be consistent with the sustainable development of the land. In essence, the purpose of section 97H(c) is to ensure that the application is not approved in cases where the current owner has demonstrated that his continued ownership of the land would further the achievement of sustainable development of the land, because if that is the case, the policy objectives of the bill will already have been met. Amendment 45 seeks to achieve a similar goal. Having listened very carefully to the view of the committee, I am very happy to support the amendment. In deciding whether to consent to the exercise of the right to buy, ministers will have to act reasonably and that will include taking account of all relevant information, including any plans that the landowner has for the land. The change that is made by amendment 45 will not affect that. The community body is required to accurately identify the current owner of the land in a part 3A application in order for the application to be valid. If the application does not accurately identify the owner, ministers are bound to reject it. Amendment 90 proposes the removal of the requirement for the community body to accurately identify the current owner. The community body would instead be required to have exercised all reasonable diligence in seeking to identify the owner, although the community body is not able to provide an accurate identification of the landowner in the application. The effect of amendment 90, in circumstances where a part 3A application had been approved without an owner being identified, would be to require title to land to be transferred to a community body even though the current landowner is unknown. First, that amendment could deny landowners the opportunity to comment on the application to buy their land and thus make it difficult for ministers to come to a fair decision about the application. Further, in circumstances where a community body has tried and failed to identify the owner, the community body has the option of contacting the Queen’s and Lord Treasurer’s Remembrancer to see whether the land has been deemed bona vacantia. If so, the body could take steps to acquire the land when the land is disposed of by the QLTR. For those reasons, I ask Sarah Boyack not to move amendment 90. One of the current criteria for approval of an application under part 3A is that the application accurately identifies creditors in a standard security over the land that is the subject of the application. Amendment 76 seeks to restrict that so that only creditors in a standard security with a right to sell the land must be identified, and not all creditors in a standard security. Amendment 76 seeks to make the application process less onerous on the community body, whilst ensuring that the appropriate creditors are identified. If the amendment is approved, there will be no requirement for the community body to identify a creditor in a standard security who does not have a right to sell the land that is the subject of the application. I move amendment 73.

In the same item of business

The Convener (Rob Gibson) SNP
Good morning, everybody, and welcome to the 10th meeting of the Rural Affairs, Climate Change and Environment Committee in 2015. Before we move to the first...
The Convener SNP
We come now to section 48 and the first grouping of amendments, on land which is eligible to be bought under part 3A of the Land Reform (Scotland) Act 2003. ...
The Minister for Environment, Climate Change and Land Reform (Aileen McLeod) SNP
Amendment 58 is a technical amendment that seeks to clarify that the land that might be bought under proposed new part 3A of the Land Reform (Scotland) Act 2...
Michael Russell (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) SNP
Most people would agree that section 48 is at the heart of the part of the bill that we are considering. I will address my amendments and the minister’s comm...
Sarah Boyack (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
I look forward to hearing the minister’s wind-up speech. I agree with Mike Russell that this debate is key to the whole bill. I will speak about amendment 89...
Alex Fergusson (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Con
I will be brief. I absolutely agree with Mike Russell and Sarah Boyack that section 48 is the core of the bill. It is also important to put it on the record ...
Claudia Beamish (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Good morning, minister. I seek clarification in relation to amendment 60. Will there be a definition, if not in the bill then in regulations, of the amount o...
Graeme Dey (Angus South) (SNP) SNP
I support Sarah Boyack’s concluding comments, in which she sought an understanding from the minister as to how in practice the minister and the committee wil...
The Convener SNP
I will make a couple of comments. First, on a point that was raised about making land available, this is a process and not an event, as we know. I understand...
Aileen McLeod SNP
I will try to answer the points that committee members have raised and I will start with amendment 34. I recognise the case that the committee has put forwar...
The Convener SNP
Amendment 34, in the name of Michael Russell, has already been debated with amendment 58.
Michael Russell SNP
On the basis of the minister’s reassurances, I will not move amendment 34. Amendment 34 not moved. Amendment 59 moved—Aileen McLeod—and agreed to.
The Convener SNP
Amendment 89, in the name of Sarah Boyack, has already been debated with amendment 58.
Sarah Boyack Lab
I would like to move amendment 89, because it is not just about consultation with interested parties; for me, it is also a timescale issue. I would hope that...
The Convener SNP
The question is, that amendment 89 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No.
The Convener SNP
There will be a division. For Beamish, Claudia (South Scotland) (Lab) Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab) Fergusson, Alex (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) ...
The Convener SNP
The result of the division is: For 4, Against 5, Abstentions 0. Amendment 89 disagreed to. 10:45 Amendment 60 moved—Aileen McLeod—and agreed to. Amend...
The Convener SNP
We move to group 2, which is on ways in which proposed new part 3A community bodies may be constituted et cetera. Amendment 62, in the name of the minister, ...
Aileen McLeod SNP
During consultation on the bill, respondents have been clear about the need for ministers to offer a wider range of entities that a community body could use....
Claudia Beamish Lab
I support all the amendments in the group. It is welcome that SCIOs and bencoms are to be included in the bill, and it is right that the eligibility requirem...
Aileen McLeod SNP
I thank Claudia Beamish for her support. The key purpose of this group of amendments is to ensure that we protect our smaller communities. We want to ensure ...
The Convener SNP
The next group is on applications for consent to buy under proposed new part 3A of the 2003 act: information to be included in application and criteria for c...
Aileen McLeod SNP
The mapping requirements that are proposed in part 3A are similar to the mapping requirements in part 3 of the Land Reform (Scotland) Act 2003 on the croftin...
Dave Thompson (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP) SNP
I will not say very much because the minister has said that she is happy to support amendment 45. I am pleased to hear that. The test that will be put in pla...
Sarah Boyack Lab
I welcome amendments 73, 74 and 75 because they will help to remove hurdles to community purchase. In some circumstances, it can be a huge challenge to ident...
Alex Fergusson Con
I return to the issue of clarity that I highlighted earlier. What disturbs me about Dave Thompson’s amendment 45—and the reason why I am afraid I cannot supp...
Aileen McLeod SNP
I tried to point out in my remarks that, if agreed to, amendment 90 would require title to land to be transferred when the land was purchased, even if the cu...
The Convener SNP
The question is, that amendment 45 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No.
The Convener SNP
There will be a division. For Beamish, Claudia (South Scotland) (Lab) Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab) Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP) Gibson, Rob (Caithne...
The Convener SNP
The result of the division is: For 7, Against 2, Abstentions 0. Amendment 45 agreed to.