Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 11 March 2015
11 Mar 2015 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Scotland’s Economy
The term “relative surplus” is crystal clear. It means that we are in a stronger financial position than the rest of the United Kingdom in the years that we have mentioned. I would have thought that the meaning was crystal clear from what I said a moment ago. I said that there are some years when we have a stronger current budget balance than the United Kingdom as a whole and some years when we have a lower and weaker position. That is a simple proposition for the Labour Party to understand.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott)
Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-12591, in the name of Jackie Baillie, on supporting Scotland’s economy. 14:41
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab)
Lab
I welcome the opportunity to open the debate on behalf of the Labour Party. Just this morning, the much-anticipated “Government Expenditure and Revenue Scotl...
Mike MacKenzie (Highlands and Islands) (SNP)
SNP
Does the member agree that, given that Labour members of Parliament marched through the lobbies to vote for austerity, what Labour advocates is continuing—in...
Jackie Baillie
Lab
I have never heard such utter nonsense. Labour does not support Tory austerity. We voted to balance the budget. John Swinney sets great store by balancing th...
Chic Brodie (South Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
Will the member give way?
Jackie Baillie
Lab
No. What the SNP wants is full fiscal autonomy and Barnett, but it cannot have both. It is the old SNP—
Mike MacKenzie
SNP
Will the member give way?
Jackie Baillie
Lab
I have already taken an intervention from Mike MacKenzie. It is really the old SNP notion that somehow people can stop paying into the kitty, but the kitty ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
You should draw to a close, please.
Jackie Baillie
Lab
Pension tax relief of £200 million would deliver the future fund for 18 and 19-year-olds and better bursaries. That would not happen with the SNP’s full fisc...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
We are very tight for time. The Deputy First Minister has up to 10 minutes, please. 14:56
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Finance, Constitution and Economy (John Swinney)
SNP
I welcome this debate on Scotland’s economy. The recovery in Scotland’s economy is now well established, as I have set out to Parliament in recent weeks. We ...
Alex Johnstone (North East Scotland) (Con)
Con
Do those figures include oil and gas? If they do, are the figures for the current year likely to show the same promise?
John Swinney
SNP
The figures include oil and gas. We will, of course, await the outcome of 2014-15 before we know the answer to Mr Johnstone’s question. In 2013-14, the tax ...
Jackie Baillie
Lab
Does the cabinet secretary accept that spending in 2013-14 was £1,200 per head higher than in the rest of the UK?
John Swinney
SNP
I will look at the rounded position in a second. Secondly, the report confirms that the overall deficit in Scotland is reducing. From 2012-13 to 2013-14, th...
Ken Macintosh (Eastwood) (Lab)
Lab
What does Mr Swinney mean when he uses the term “relative surplus”? Is he suggesting that we run a surplus, or do we actually run a deficit?
John Swinney
SNP
The term “relative surplus” is crystal clear. It means that we are in a stronger financial position than the rest of the United Kingdom in the years that we ...
Ken Macintosh
Lab
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. Interruption.
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
Come to the point, please.
Ken Macintosh
Lab
Thank you, Presiding Officer. In order for you to ensure that nobody inadvertently misleads the chamber, I say that the word “surplus” clearly implies that S...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
Order. Let Mr Macintosh conclude, please.
Ken Macintosh
Lab
The term “surplus” clearly implies that we are not borrowing more than we spend, but that is not the case. We are running a deficit, so the term “relative su...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
That is not a point of order; indeed, it is spurious. Do continue, Mr Swinney.
John Swinney
SNP
We believe that the strong track record of the Scottish Government’s economic policy making is proof that we are best placed to make the key decisions about ...
Gavin Brown (Lothian) (Con)
Con
Does Mr Swinney accept that, in the short term, we would be financially worse off under full fiscal autonomy?
John Swinney
SNP
I have set out the fact that, by exercising responsibilities in accordance with the needs and priorities of the people of Scotland, we have the ability to ac...
Jackie Baillie
Lab
We voted to balance the budget; we did not vote for Tory austerity. Interruption.
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
Order.
Jackie Baillie
Lab
It is interesting that SNP back benchers are laughing, but John Swinney cares about balancing the budget. At today’s meeting of the Finance Committee, we he...