Committee
Local Government and Regeneration Committee 04 March 2015
04 Mar 2015 · S4 · Local Government and Regeneration Committee
Item of business
Community Empowerment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
I want to address the content of Alex Rowley’s amendment 1049, which I think raises some really quite serious practical issues that are not adequately addressed in its drafting. In particular, proposed subsection (3)(a) of the new section that the amendment would insert provides that the Scottish ministers must “lay a copy of the proposed draft regulations before the Parliament.” That is fine, except that the amendment does not provide for the handcuffs that the Government has provided in its amendments, whereby the regulations cannot be withdrawn during the consultation period. Governments could find themselves in a position where they would wish to withdraw the regulations during the consultation, which would of course create considerable difficulties for the consultees. In that respect, the Government’s approach is much to be preferred, because it would provide stability during the consultation period. The way in which amendment 1049 is drafted means that it does not provide such stability. I also want to talk about the reporting issue. It is deceptively attractive to prescribe when reporting may be done, but the construct of the amendment means that, in essence, reporting cannot be done at other times. This is a wide-ranging bill that covers a wide range of policy areas and subjects. The minister’s reference to Scotland performs was appropriate, because of course a Government may wish to provide updates at the timely point. I can see members getting intensely frustrated as they rise to their feet to question ministers at oral questions if the minister says, “I’m not allowed to report under the amendment to the Community Empowerment (Scotland) Bill that was agreed to on 4 March 2015, which does not allow me to report to Parliament until the particular date that was set out.” It is far better that the Government has the ability to make such reports, updates and disclosures as are possible in a timely and appropriate way across a wide range of policy areas, and that we do not pass a bill that prevents and inhibits members from questioning and demanding answers from ministers, which the amendment carries the very real danger of doing.
In the same item of business
The Convener
SNP
Agenda item 3 is consideration of the Community Empowerment (Scotland) Bill at stage 2. This is day 1 of the process. I welcome to the meeting Marco Biagi, ...
The Convener
SNP
We come to the first group of amendments. Amendment 1043, in the name of Alex Rowley, is grouped with amendments 1044, 1003 to 1005, 1045, 1049, 1008 to 1012...
Alex Rowley (Cowdenbeath) (Lab)
Lab
The purposes of my amendments 1043, 1044, 1049, 1051 to 1053 and 1071 are to ensure that the national outcomes for Scotland are created through a participati...
The Convener
SNP
I call the minister to speak to amendment 1003 and the other amendments in the group.
The Minister for Local Government and Community Empowerment (Marco Biagi)
SNP
Thank you—it is a pleasure to be in front of the committee again. I hope that this goes as well as the last stage 2 that I attended at the committee. Alex R...
The Convener
SNP
Thank you, minister. I call Drew Smith to speak to amendment 1045.
Drew Smith (Glasgow) (Lab)
Lab
Thank you very much, convener, for the opportunity to take part in these stage 2 proceedings. I note what the minister said and thank him for his agreement...
Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP)
SNP
I want to address the content of Alex Rowley’s amendment 1049, which I think raises some really quite serious practical issues that are not adequately addres...
Alex Rowley
Lab
I thank the minister, as Drew Smith did, for his comments on the sentiment that we are discussing in relation to the bill. I should add that my name is prono...
The Convener
SNP
The question is, that amendment 1043 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No.
The Convener
SNP
There will be a division. For Buchanan, Cameron (Lothian) (Con) Hilton, Cara (Dunfermline) (Lab) Rowley, Alex (Cowdenbeath) (Lab) Wilson, John (Central ...
The Convener
SNP
The result of the division is: For 4, Against 3, Abstentions 0. Amendment 1043 agreed to.
The Convener
SNP
Group 2 is on functions to which national outcomes relate and duty of bodies exercising those functions. Amendment 1001, in the name of the minister, is grou...
Marco Biagi
SNP
Group 2 covers a number of amendments to improve the structure and to clarify points in section 1. Amendment 1001 has been lodged in response to a question f...
Cameron Buchanan (Lothian) (Con)
Con
I have lodged amendment 1006A because I wanted to weaken the provision. I think that “have regard to” is too strong and that “consider” is a less draconian t...
Stewart Stevenson
SNP
I wanted to invite the minister in his concluding remarks to expand on proposed new subsection (1C), in which he excludes functions where the Scottish Parlia...
Marco Biagi
SNP
We have a difference of opinion as to how much consideration should be given to the national outcomes. I am clear that we should be quite strong on those but...
The Convener
SNP
Group 3 is on national outcomes: inequalities resulting from socioeconomic disadvantage. Amendment 1002, in the name of Marco Biagi, is the only amendment in...
Marco Biagi
SNP
We are committed to building a fairer Scotland and reducing inequalities and we wish to make that aim more explicit throughout the bill. Amendment 1002 requi...
The Convener
SNP
Amendment 1044, in the name of Alex Rowley, has already been debated with amendment 1043. I remind members that if amendment 1044 is agreed to, I cannot call...
The Convener
SNP
The question is, that amendment 1044 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No.
The Convener
SNP
There will be a division. For Hilton, Cara (Dunfermline) (Lab) Rowley, Alex (Cowdenbeath) (Lab) Against Buchanan, Cameron (Lothian) (Con) Coffey, Willi...
The Convener
SNP
The result of the division is: For 2, Against 5, Abstentions 0. Amendment 1044 disagreed to. Amendments 1003 to 1005 moved—Marco Biagi—and agreed to. 1...
The Convener
SNP
The question is, that amendment 1045 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No.
The Convener
SNP
There will be a division. For Buchanan, Cameron (Lothian) (Con) Hilton, Cara (Dunfermline) (Lab) Rowley, Alex (Cowdenbeath) (Lab) Against Coffey, Willi...
The Convener
SNP
The result of the division is: For 3, Against 4, Abstentions 0. Amendment 1045 disagreed to. Amendment 1006 moved—Marco Biagi. Amendment 1006A moved—Camer...
The Convener
SNP
The question is, that amendment 1006A be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No.
The Convener
SNP
There will be a division. For Buchanan, Cameron (Lothian) (Con) Hilton, Cara (Dunfermline) (Lab) Rowley, Alex (Cowdenbeath) (Lab) Against Coffey, Willi...
The Convener
SNP
The result of the division is: For 3, Against 4, Abstentions 0. Amendment 1006A disagreed to. Amendment 1006 agreed to. Amendment 1007 moved—Marco Biagi—a...
The Convener
SNP
The question is, that section 1 be agreed to. Are we agreed?