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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 26 February 2015

26 Feb 2015 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Commission on Local Tax Reform

Not at all. Like the many commissions that I know Mr Crawford has been involved in and seen, although we have set up the commission, it will operate independently. Its weekly work will not be set by us and its conclusions will be independently reached by its commissioners. It will then of course be up to the party to decide whether to take all or most of the recommendations on board. That is how most independent commissions work. Mr Crawford ought to know that, having sat on one or two himself.

The other reason why we chose not to join the minister’s commission is that, having thought carefully about where the group might end up, and given the views of the left-wing parties in the Parliament and the cosy left-wing consensus that exists across the chamber, we genuinely do not believe that there is almost any prospect of our agreeing with the SNP or, for that matter, the Greens on what local government taxation should look like.

We know that the Greens want a land value tax; they always have done and I suspect that they will push for that. We know that the Liberal Democrats want a local income tax and that the SNP wants a national local income tax. We do not know what the Labour Party wants, and I suspect that it does not know what it wants. However, we are pretty clear that all those parties would want to hammer taxpayers in a way that we would not.

The land and buildings transaction tax debates during the course of the budget gave a clear example of that, because none of the other parties batted an eyelid when punitive rates were announced that included a staggering 10 per cent on homes that are worth over £250,000. Labour and the Greens were unhappy when Mr Swinney changed his mind and introduced the 5 per cent banding rate, although we did not think that he went anywhere near far enough. Of course, the SNP was happy and so were the Lib Dems, but Labour and the Greens were unhappy that Mr Swinney had moved on the issue at all.

We are setting up our own commission because we think that we are very unlikely to agree with what the minister’s commission concludes. We believe that voters deserve a choice in 2016 based on the independent work done by our commission and by the minister’s commission.

When the Government responded to the Local Government and Regeneration Committee’s report, it said clearly that the choice should be put to the people. Our concern is that, if all the parties simply agree and put only one proposition to the people at the next election, that will be no choice at all. That is why we are not joining the minister’s commission and why we will not support the motion at decision time.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-12423, in the name of Marco Biagi, on the commission on local tax reform. 15:00
The Minister for Local Government and Community Empowerment (Marco Biagi) SNP
In looking at tax, we in the Scottish Government base our approach on four principles: efficiency, convenience, certainty and the tax’s being proportionate t...
Gavin Brown (Lothian) (Con) Con
Just a couple of weeks ago in the chamber, John Swinney said, in defending the council tax: “Council tax liability is linked to ability to pay through the c...
Marco Biagi SNP
It is “linked”, but I said that it “does not in a substantive sense adhere” to the fourth principle. There is a linkage, but it could be greater. The 1992...
Alex Johnstone (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
Will the minister concede that the suggestion that council tax relief was abolished in Scotland is not entirely accurate, that a significant proportion of th...
Marco Biagi SNP
Council tax was a reserved benefit. It was abolished. The funding was devolved with a 10 per cent cut, and we have had to step in and plug that gap. In Engl...
Alex Rowley (Cowdenbeath) (Lab) Lab
Will the minister give way?
Marco Biagi SNP
I need to make some progress. Perhaps with the exception of the Conservatives, we all recognise that the present system, as defined in an act that was passe...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott) Con
I call Alex Rowley to speak to and move amendment S4M-12423.1. Mr Rowley, you have 9 minutes. 15:13
Alex Rowley (Cowdenbeath) (Lab) Lab
Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I was a bit concerned when I heard the minister starting off his speech by saying that we were going to have the debat...
Gavin Brown Con
I am grateful to Alex Rowley for giving way. Is it his view that the commission will not come up with recommendations?
Alex Rowley Lab
The commission may choose to advise on the benefits and merits of each of the different options that it considers. If it provides an informative report outli...
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) SNP
Will Alex Rowley give way?
Alex Rowley Lab
Yes.
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
I am sorry, Mr Stewart, but the member is in his last minute.
Alex Rowley Lab
I am sorry—that is right. The point is that having the new commission look at local taxation in isolation will not be the panacea for all the local governme...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
Yes, please.
Alex Rowley Lab
The reason why that is so important is that local government does something every day that Parliament does not do. Every day, local authorities throughout Sc...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
We take your point.
Alex Rowley Lab
In all those areas, local government is key. It is far too important—
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
You must close, please.
Alex Rowley Lab
—for us not to get the answers. That is why we will support the motion as amended today. I move amendment S4M-12423.1, to insert after “council tax”: “as p...
Gavin Brown (Lothian) (Con) Con
I begin with a degree of surprise after listening to the first two speeches—from the Scottish National Party and Labour—about what exactly the commission wil...
Willie Rennie (Mid Scotland and Fife) (LD) LD
Surely Gavin Brown recognises that it is better to have tried, and perhaps failed and been enlightened, than not to have bothered at all.
Gavin Brown Con
The point is that, based on what the minister said, the commission will not even be trying to make firm recommendations. I am genuinely confused about what t...
Bruce Crawford (Stirling) (SNP) SNP
Can Mr Brown join together an equation that says on the one hand that his group will produce proposals and be independent and on the other hand that it will ...
Gavin Brown Con
Not at all. Like the many commissions that I know Mr Crawford has been involved in and seen, although we have set up the commission, it will operate independ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
We move to the open debate. I call Kevin Stewart, to be followed by Willie Rennie. We are tight for time, so I ask for six-minute speeches, please. 15:28
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) SNP
I thank my colleagues on the Local Government and Regeneration Committee for the work that they did on the flexibility and autonomy report. During our delibe...
Gavin Brown Con
That criticism would be fair if we were doing nothing but, given that we have set up our own commission, which will engage extremely widely, surely it is unf...