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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 26 February 2015

26 Feb 2015 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Commission on Local Tax Reform

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer.

I was a bit concerned when I heard the minister starting off his speech by saying that we were going to have the debate today about the merits or otherwise of the council tax and what should replace it. That is not for today; that is why the commission was set up.

I want to amend the motion because the Local Government and Regeneration Committee, while carrying out its inquiry into flexibility and autonomy in local government, heard a lot of evidence from a lot of different people who have expertise in local government and government more generally, and they all raised the issue of local government finance and the fact that we need to put local government finance on a stable footing, moving forward. It is important that the Local Government and Regeneration Committee recognised that need, highlighted it in its report and called for an all-party group to be pulled together to try to move that forward.

The committee made the point that local authority funding and expenditure in Scotland in the current year is expected to exceed £11.5 billion across the 32 local authorities. That highlights just how important local government is to every community in Scotland.

It also made the point that the four elements that make up local government funding are council tax, fees and charges, Scottish Government grant and other income. I will say a bit more about the council tax and the percentage that it makes up.

However, the committee also said that one area in which there is almost unanimous agreement among politicians and parties is that the current system of financing requires reform. That view seems to have been around for some time.

I am disappointed that the Conservative group has decided not to participate in the commission because, like the minister, I do not expect that we will reach a conclusion and say, “That’s the system of local government finance that needs to be put in place.” I am much more keen for the commission to look at options and that it is able to produce a useful report that all parties can use as we set out our manifestos and as we look towards finding a sustainable way of managing local government finance.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-12423, in the name of Marco Biagi, on the commission on local tax reform. 15:00
The Minister for Local Government and Community Empowerment (Marco Biagi) SNP
In looking at tax, we in the Scottish Government base our approach on four principles: efficiency, convenience, certainty and the tax’s being proportionate t...
Gavin Brown (Lothian) (Con) Con
Just a couple of weeks ago in the chamber, John Swinney said, in defending the council tax: “Council tax liability is linked to ability to pay through the c...
Marco Biagi SNP
It is “linked”, but I said that it “does not in a substantive sense adhere” to the fourth principle. There is a linkage, but it could be greater. The 1992...
Alex Johnstone (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
Will the minister concede that the suggestion that council tax relief was abolished in Scotland is not entirely accurate, that a significant proportion of th...
Marco Biagi SNP
Council tax was a reserved benefit. It was abolished. The funding was devolved with a 10 per cent cut, and we have had to step in and plug that gap. In Engl...
Alex Rowley (Cowdenbeath) (Lab) Lab
Will the minister give way?
Marco Biagi SNP
I need to make some progress. Perhaps with the exception of the Conservatives, we all recognise that the present system, as defined in an act that was passe...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott) Con
I call Alex Rowley to speak to and move amendment S4M-12423.1. Mr Rowley, you have 9 minutes. 15:13
Alex Rowley (Cowdenbeath) (Lab) Lab
Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I was a bit concerned when I heard the minister starting off his speech by saying that we were going to have the debat...
Gavin Brown Con
I am grateful to Alex Rowley for giving way. Is it his view that the commission will not come up with recommendations?
Alex Rowley Lab
The commission may choose to advise on the benefits and merits of each of the different options that it considers. If it provides an informative report outli...
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) SNP
Will Alex Rowley give way?
Alex Rowley Lab
Yes.
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
I am sorry, Mr Stewart, but the member is in his last minute.
Alex Rowley Lab
I am sorry—that is right. The point is that having the new commission look at local taxation in isolation will not be the panacea for all the local governme...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
Yes, please.
Alex Rowley Lab
The reason why that is so important is that local government does something every day that Parliament does not do. Every day, local authorities throughout Sc...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
We take your point.
Alex Rowley Lab
In all those areas, local government is key. It is far too important—
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
You must close, please.
Alex Rowley Lab
—for us not to get the answers. That is why we will support the motion as amended today. I move amendment S4M-12423.1, to insert after “council tax”: “as p...
Gavin Brown (Lothian) (Con) Con
I begin with a degree of surprise after listening to the first two speeches—from the Scottish National Party and Labour—about what exactly the commission wil...
Willie Rennie (Mid Scotland and Fife) (LD) LD
Surely Gavin Brown recognises that it is better to have tried, and perhaps failed and been enlightened, than not to have bothered at all.
Gavin Brown Con
The point is that, based on what the minister said, the commission will not even be trying to make firm recommendations. I am genuinely confused about what t...
Bruce Crawford (Stirling) (SNP) SNP
Can Mr Brown join together an equation that says on the one hand that his group will produce proposals and be independent and on the other hand that it will ...
Gavin Brown Con
Not at all. Like the many commissions that I know Mr Crawford has been involved in and seen, although we have set up the commission, it will operate independ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
We move to the open debate. I call Kevin Stewart, to be followed by Willie Rennie. We are tight for time, so I ask for six-minute speeches, please. 15:28
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) SNP
I thank my colleagues on the Local Government and Regeneration Committee for the work that they did on the flexibility and autonomy report. During our delibe...
Gavin Brown Con
That criticism would be fair if we were doing nothing but, given that we have set up our own commission, which will engage extremely widely, surely it is unf...