Holyrood, made browsable

Hansard

Every contribution to the Official Report — chamber and committee — searchable in one place. Pulled from data.parliament.scot, indexed for full-text search, linked through to every MSP.

129
Current MSPs
415
MSPs ever elected
14
Parties on record
2,096,445
Hansard contributions
1999–2026
Coverage span
Official Report

Search Hansard contributions

Clear
Showing 0 of 2,096,445 contributions in session S6, 13 May 2026 – 12 Jun 2026. Latest 30 days: 3,975. Coverage: 12 May 1999 — 11 Jun 2026.

No contributions match those filters.

← Back to list
Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 19 February 2015

19 Feb 2015 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Community Charge Debt (Scotland) Bill
Mason, John SNP Glasgow Shettleston Watch on SPTV

I am pleased that the bill has got to stage 3 and that it has the widespread support that it obviously has. The community charge was a bad tax, and my colleague Kenny MacAskill put that eloquently, as others will.

In the first place, it is not just any old debt that is being written off. There is a much stronger argument for writing off the poll tax debt than for writing off the debt for any other run-of-the-mill tax, because the poll tax was so unfair all along the line. However, the reality is that all debt needs to be evaluated at times. We must evaluate, for example, whether it can be collected at all, whether the cost of collecting it makes it worth while and whether chasing it is detrimental to other objectives.

I suggest that, on all three of those points, the tax write-off that the bill proposes passes the test. First, it is clear that the vast bulk of the debt cannot be collected, as people do not have the money, have died or are not traceable. Secondly, some councils have already decided that it would be throwing good money after bad to pursue the debt and have stopped trying to collect it. Thirdly, councils such as Glasgow City Council have decided to pursue council tax debt rather than diverting limited resources to the poll tax debt.

We should not think that writing off debt is unusual. Private and public sector debt is first provided for if there is doubt about its collectability. That often occurs by providing 25 per cent, 50 per cent and so on as the debt gets older without being collected. Once any debt has been provided for 100 per cent, it can still sit in the accounts but the net effect is nil, as the provision matches the asset. In effect, that is what has already happened with community charge debt, as I understand that all councils have provided 100 per cent of the outstanding debt. Therefore, writing it off merely reflects the reality that the debt is, to all intents and purposes, irrecoverable.

It is also not unusual that those who pay tax—or any cost, for that matter—cross-subsidise others who do not or cannot pay it. Anything that we buy in the shop includes the cost of shoplifting and, when we pay for gas or electricity, the payment includes the cost of those who default. The Conservatives may try and make a big song and dance out of the situation, but we are doing only what any business or utility—or whatever—does pretty regularly.

As has been mentioned, there is a tax gap. We gather that that is £34 billion for the UK. If we were starting off from scratch to close the gap, would we look for the few pounds here or there that we could get from people who were struggling or would we chase the big multinational companies that avoid tax through dodgy transfer pricing and the rich individuals who can afford clever tax experts and who move large parts of their assets to offshore tax havens?

There is a moral question here. Are we pursuing unpaid tax from the rich and powerful with the same enthusiasm as we are pursuing it from the poorer and the weaker? The SNP, Labour, the Greens and the independents are pretty clear on that point, but I fear that the Conservatives tend to side with the rich and powerful against the weaker and poorer. I have no idea where the Liberal Democrats are on the issue.

I am more than happy to support the bill and I am delighted that it has reached stage 3. It is not just about a few thousand pounds or even a few hundred thousand pounds. We are sending out a symbolic message that this Parliament does not approve of taxes such as the poll tax, that it will not introduce taxes like the poll tax and that it will do what it can to make our society fairer and help those most in need.

I congratulate the Government on introducing the bill. I look forward to it being passed today.

16:41  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott) Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-12344, in the name of John Swinney, on the Community Charge Debt (Scotland) Bill. I call on Marco Biagi...
The Minister for Local Government and Community Empowerment (Marco Biagi) SNP
Thank you, Presiding Officer. On 2 October last year—
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
Wait one second, Mr Biagi. I must ask members who are leaving the chamber to do so quickly and quietly, please, as a mark of respect to the minister.
Marco Biagi SNP
On 2 October last year, the former First Minister announced the Government’s intention to introduce legislation to ensure that councils could take no further...
Gavin Brown (Lothian) (Con) Con
Is it okay for councils to look at the expanded electoral registers to track down council tax debt of, say, 18 years’ duration?
Marco Biagi SNP
The issues that we face with the poll tax were created by very particular historical circumstances, in which there were high levels of protest, disruption, d...
Alex Rowley (Cowdenbeath) (Lab) Lab
I begin with something that I forgot to do at stage 1, which is thanking the Finance Committee. It should be put on the record that it did a good piece of wo...
Gavin Brown (Lothian) (Con) Con
We have been against the bill from the beginning. We have been critical of the way in which it was announced and the lack of consultation. We are against the...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
Does the member not think that a worse example is the big companies and the rich individuals who hide their money overseas, creating a huge tax gap? Are they...
Gavin Brown Con
We are happy to debate tax evasion and tax avoidance of any nature in this chamber at any time, but today we are debating stage 3 of the specific bill in fro...
Kenny MacAskill (Edinburgh Eastern) (SNP) SNP
The debate is not about the principle of paying taxation; it is about the final burying of the poll tax. Like many members in the chamber, I have recently fi...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
You must close, please.
Kenny MacAskill SNP
On that point, Presiding Officer, I will end. 16:28
Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (Lab) Lab
I was very happy to support this bill soon after it was published, because it is the right thing to do. However, we have to respond to the points that Gavin ...
Gavin Brown Con
I note that Perth and Kinross Council, which Malcolm Chisholm mentioned, also said: “Beyond this issue we also have further concerns about the potential imp...
Malcolm Chisholm Lab
Well, that seems to contradict the quote that I highlighted. In any case, the more fundamental point is that Gavin Brown does not regard the poll tax as bei...
Alex Salmond (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) SNP
I speak not so much as the member of the Scottish Parliament for Aberdeenshire East but as Alex from Strichen, who was moved to call the “Call Kaye” phone-in...
Gavin Brown Con
It is interesting that Alex Salmond criticises others for not being in the chamber to vote or debate, but let us move past that. If it is so iniquitous, why ...
Alex Salmond SNP
Because of the three reasons that I outlined. First, the poll tax cost more to collect in many circumstances than could be collected. Secondly, the debt is m...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
I am pleased that the bill has got to stage 3 and that it has the widespread support that it obviously has. The community charge was a bad tax, and my collea...
Cameron Buchanan (Lothian) (Con) Con
First, I apologise for speaking out of turn earlier. As they say on the radio programme, “I’m sorry, I’ll read that again.” I assure members that, from now o...
Michael Russell (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) SNP
The answer that the member seeks on why the Government is so passionate is simple. I think that Gavin Brown was 14 when the poll tax came in. Many members in...
Cameron Buchanan Con
I was not 14 at that time. This is a question of principle rather than anything else. The principle is about paying taxes and not about whether the tax is fa...
John Wilson (Central Scotland) (Ind) Ind
What does Cameron Buchanan say to his Westminster colleagues who have supported those who have been offshoring their accounts to avoid paying tax in the UK?
Cameron Buchanan Con
That is more the point that John Mason made. I will not say anything about that, because it is not what we are talking about. Interruption. No, it is not. We...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
Order.
Cameron Buchanan Con
Many of my constituents have contacted me to express their opposition to the bill. They are absolutely right—it is unfair. No matter the spin that is offered...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab
As other members have done, I thank the Finance Committee and the clerks to the committee for scrutinising the bill in the run-up to the stage 3 debate. Asi...
Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) SNP
The member might care to clarify what she said. There is a 20-year bar on recovering debts rather than chasing them. Is that not kind of the point?
Jackie Baillie Lab
The member is right. There is a 20-year legal bar on recovering debts. However, I think that he will find that most local authorities said that, practically,...