Committee
Welfare Reform Committee 27 January 2015
27 Jan 2015 · S4 · Welfare Reform Committee
Item of business
Welfare Funds (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
I support Ken Macintosh’s amendment 25. I have heard the arguments against it, but choice does not have to mean more cost. Some of the bulk purchases are set, and that is it. However, we all know that sales go on and that there are opportunities to reduce the cost. Ken Macintosh also made a point about use of vouchers in rural areas. How much would it cost an individual to travel to a city so that they could use the vouchers, which they will not be able to use in local shops? We are saying that local authorities should be able to consider each individual case by case, and to exercise discretion accordingly. I know that there will be cases in which a person who has had assistance in the past has not spent the money as they should have done. In such cases, the local authority would have reason to provide any further assistance in kind or in vouchers. However, we want to give individuals who are in situations such as we are talking about a bit more control over their lives, so that they can decide what they want and what is best for them. Therefore, I support Ken Macintosh’s amendment.
In the same item of business
The Convener
Lab
Our second agenda item is consideration of the Welfare Funds (Scotland) Bill at stage 2. I remind ministerial officials that they are not permitted to part...
The Convener
Lab
The first group of amendments is on general principles on respect for and the dignity of the applicant. Amendment 24, in the name of Margaret McDougall, is g...
Margaret McDougall (West Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
I will move both the amendments in my name. Amendment 24 would insert, under the heading “General principles”, the following provision: “In exercising its ...
The Convener
Lab
We are just dealing with amendment 24, Margaret. Are you also speaking to amendment 30 in the name of Kevin Stewart?
Margaret McDougall
Lab
No.
The Convener
Lab
We will come to your other amendment in another group. Kevin Stewart will speak to amendment 30.
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP)
SNP
I share the belief that applicants should be treated with respect, and I would like to ensure that their dignity is preserved at all times. With the changes ...
The Convener
Lab
I will open it to other members to comment.
Annabel Goldie (West Scotland) (Con)
Con
I have a lot of sympathy with both the intention and objectives of both amendments 24 and 30, but I have a technical concern. What is the sanction if a claim...
Margaret McDougall
Lab
Can I—
The Convener
Lab
Margaret, you will get an opportunity to wind up at the end of the discussion. I will come back to you after the debate. Ken Macintosh wishes to speak.
Ken Macintosh (Eastwood) (Lab)
Lab
Thank you very much, convener—Laughter. They seem to have turned up the microphones since I left the committee. I congratulate both Margaret McDougall and K...
The Minister for Housing and Welfare (Margaret Burgess)
SNP
It has always been a priority that welfare funds should be delivered in such a way that the dignity of welfare fund users is preserved. I agree with the comm...
The Convener
Lab
We come back to Margaret McDougall to wind up the debate and to press or withdraw her amendment 24. Margaret, it is your opportunity to answer the questions ...
Margaret McDougall
Lab
Ken Macintosh answered Annabel Goldie’s question on sanctions. The judicial review option is there, and the user can appeal, so I have no concerns in that re...
The Convener
Lab
The question is, that amendment 24 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No.
The Convener
Lab
There will be a division.
Ken Macintosh
Lab
Do I get a vote?
The Convener
Lab
No. You get the opportunity to speak, but not to vote. For McDougall, Margaret (West Scotland) (Lab) McMahon, Michael (Uddingston and Bellshill) (Lab) Ag...
The Convener
Lab
The result of the division is: For 2, Against 5, Abstentions 0. Amendment 24 disagreed to. Section 2—Use of welfare funds: assistance for short term need...
The Convener
Lab
Amendment 25, in the name of Ken Macintosh, is grouped with amendments 26 and 28.
Ken Macintosh
Lab
As we know, the bill places no restrictions on the circumstances in which a local authority can decide to make an award in kind to an applicant; that is, in ...
Kevin Stewart
SNP
We heard a lot during the course of evidence taking and read a number of written observations about those issues. One of the key things that we need to put o...
Annabel Goldie
Con
I have no doubt whatsoever about the good intentions behind the amendment, but I return to my observations about amendment 24, in the name of Margaret McDoug...
Joan McAlpine (South Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
As other members have done, I acknowledge the good intentions behind amendment 25. It is important to remember that the people about whom we are talking are ...
Margaret McDougall
Lab
I support Ken Macintosh’s amendment 25. I have heard the arguments against it, but choice does not have to mean more cost. Some of the bulk purchases are set...
Clare Adamson (Central Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
I have listened to the arguments. On the view that choice would not cost more, I think that that flies in the face of evidence that was provided by the Conve...
Margaret Burgess
SNP
There are a number of things to take into account when considering amendments 25, 26 and 28, which would, taken together, result in limits being placed on th...
Ken Macintosh
Lab
I have been both slightly encouraged and slightly discouraged by the debate. First, I am slightly concerned that I perhaps did not explain, or that people mi...
Annabel Goldie
Con
Am I allowed to intervene?