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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 28 January 2015

28 Jan 2015 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Women Offenders
Paterson, Gil SNP Clydebank and Milngavie Watch on SPTV

I am pleased to speak in this debate on women offenders and how we can best deal with that problem. This is my first speech as a member of the Justice Committee, but I have been involved with and have paid close attention to the issue for a good number of years.

My starting point is that prison is sometimes the only place where an offender should be, and that includes women. However, prison is sometimes the wrong place for an offender to be, and that is particularly the case for too many women.

We know that those who have committed low-level offences and have been given short prison sentences are more than likely to reoffend on release. There is little or no time for the Scottish Prison Service to work with short-term offenders to rehabilitate them and ensure that they are less likely to reoffend on release—and so the cycle goes on.

The opinion of some members of the public is that offenders should be punished and that is the end of it. They think, “Just punish them and be done with it.” However, in general, the public look to the long term and take the view that we will cut the risk of reoffending in the future by engaging with offenders and ensuring that we rehabilitate them, whether by using prison or by using other methods. They know full well that increased crime equals more misery for the community and greater public spending to deal with it. It would be far better to spend taxpayers’ money on ways of stopping reoffending and assisting those who are caught in the cycle of crime to get out of it.

The figures show that women offenders are more likely to commit low-level crime and be sentenced to prison time. That has negative consequences not only for them but for their family, and must be addressed. In my view, women in prison have a greater burden, with the impact of their sentence hitting the children hard through the loss of their mother. Sometimes, the children are taken into the care of social services. That burden will have only a negative impact on the mental wellbeing of those women.

While they are in prison, women are less likely to be morally or financially supported by their partners, and that includes partners, husbands, boyfriends and fathers looking after the children. Addictions are heightened, and illness and long-lasting depression increase. Women suffer disproportionately from depression, which could be tied to their natural maternal instincts being challenged because they have lost touch with their family unit and, in particular, with their children.

With that in mind, I am pleased with the Scottish Government and, in particular, with the new Cabinet Secretary for Justice, Michael Matheson, who has had the courage—and it is courage—to review the proposed new women’s prison in Greenock in the first place and to implement a change of direction. That was a bold and courageous move.

Sometimes people consider that changing our minds is wrong, but too often Governments do not change their minds. I very much welcome the cabinet secretary’s emphasis on the change, which will bring more focus on smaller, locally based units. That will have a number of benefits. Offenders will be closer to their family and children, which I believe will make a huge difference. I suggest going even further and working towards making prison for low-level crimes the exception rather than the rule.

I am a great believer in preventative spending—we have spent a lot of time on the subject in the Health and Sport Committee. However, I get a bit annoyed when statistics are used to score political points rather than to help tackle the issue. Simply put, if we are diverting resources to preventative spending, it stands to reason that, in the long term, we will not spend the same level as is spent on existing services. Particularly during times of economic hardship, as is the case now, and of restricted budgets, if we invest in preventative spend, we cannot spend the money twice.

I believe in cutting the number of women who are sent to prison and in using the savings from that to support programmes for offenders that are based in the community. That is preventative spend at its best, and the dividends will be of great benefit to the public, who will be pleased to see a reduction in persistent, low-level crime.

For me, the goal of seeing fewer women in prison—women who should not be there—means that the lives of women and their children and wider families will be improved or even transformed. That would be a great achievement from which we could all get satisfaction. We therefore need a political truce among all parties in the chamber and to agree to focus our energies on positive action, so that we can take joint ownership of a strategy for the long term. Otherwise, political expediency will once again be the victor.

I am very pleased to support the amendment in the name of Michael Matheson, which I commend to the Parliament.

16:38  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith) Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-12160, in the name of Kezia Dugdale, on women offenders. I call Kezia Dugdale to speak to and move the mo...
Kezia Dugdale (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
I welcome the opportunity to devote Labour business time to female offending. It is to our collective shame that the female population of our prisons has dou...
Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) SNP
I am very much in tune with what Kezia Dugdale is saying. A Soroptimist International report that came out recently says that 80 per cent of women offenders ...
Kezia Dugdale Lab
I absolutely concur with that. Several Labour members will touch on mental health. I would have more sympathy with Stewart Stevenson’s position, however, if ...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Michael Matheson) SNP
Members are aware that I announced on Monday that the Scottish Prison Service’s plan for a women’s prison in Inverclyde will not go ahead because the plan do...
Kezia Dugdale Lab
I welcome the cabinet secretary’s remarks on evaluation. Can he tell us, in response to the question that I asked in my opening speech, whether he has examin...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Cabinet secretary—you are approaching your last 30 seconds.
Michael Matheson SNP
My officials are engaged in work on those projects. When the projects received funding two years ago, part of the agreement concerned their sustainability an...
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
I congratulate Labour on bringing the issue of women offenders to the chamber. I am sympathetic to the intent behind the motion, but it misses the mark with ...
Alison McInnes (North East Scotland) (LD) LD
I am so pleased that the Cabinet Secretary for Justice has reflected on the plan for HMP Inverclyde and listened to the progressive voices that were raised a...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
We move to the open debate. We do not have a lot of time available, so I ask members to keep to speeches of six minutes. 15:48
Roderick Campbell (North East Fife) (SNP) SNP
Like others, I welcomed the cabinet secretary’s statement on Monday. I also welcomed his considered response to the Justice Committee on 16 December. Members...
Elaine Murray (Dumfriesshire) (Lab) Lab
Like other members and the organisations that have campaigned for a rethink on the proposed female prison at Inverclyde, I welcome the cabinet secretary’s st...
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) SNP
I commend Alison McInnes, not just for her very measured and thoughtful speech, but because she has single-handedly kept the focus on the delivery of the rec...
Margaret Mitchell Con
Is the point not that the facility that was proposed was not in line with Elish Angiolini’s recommendations, which had been fully debated? It had been identi...
Christine Grahame SNP
None of us on the committee thought that what was proposed was perfect, but I do not recall anyone opposing it aggressively. We had huge reservations about l...
Mary Fee (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I congratulate the cabinet secretary on taking the decision not to go ahead with the proposed women’s prison in Inverclyde. We need a radical change in how w...
Roderick Campbell SNP
The member may recall that Dame Elish Angiolini, in giving evidence on child impact assessments, said: “I do not believe that any judge who sentenced withou...
Mary Fee Lab
I take on board that point. However, I am trying to make the point that the child and family impact assessment should be at the front and centre of decision ...
Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) SNP
I congratulate Kezia Dugdale on what was basically a broadly drawn and generally well-argued case. I agree on the broad thrust and disagree on the detail—tha...
Dr Richard Simpson (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
I have a couple of facts to share. The previous numeracy survey, which was carried out in 2013, says that 22 per cent of women had numeracy problems, 11 per ...
Stewart Stevenson SNP
I am grateful to the member for that. I am more familiar with the circumstances of male prisoners, because the sex offenders unit used to be in my constituen...
Christina McKelvie (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (SNP) SNP
A famous female offender said: “Who were the women who, day by day, trod the very stones on which my feet now stood ... ? How and why had they broken the la...
Jayne Baxter (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
When the Angiolini report was published, the then justice secretary, Kenny MacAskill, called it a “compelling vision for the future.” The centrepiece of th...
Christina McKelvie SNP
Like me, the member will know that three quarters of the women who are sent to jail receive sentences of six months or less. In 2008, the McLeish commission ...
Jayne Baxter Lab
Yes, to put it briefly. Statistics show that 70 per cent of women offenders who receive a prison sentence of three months or less are reconvicted of an offe...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott) Con
You should draw to a close, please.
Jayne Baxter Lab
On a related topic, the Scottish sentencing council is an important development. It will provide an opportunity for a wider range of voices to be heard in th...
Gil Paterson (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) SNP
I am pleased to speak in this debate on women offenders and how we can best deal with that problem. This is my first speech as a member of the Justice Commit...
Dr Richard Simpson (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
I begin as I do in almost all the speeches that I make in the chamber by praising the Government for the things that it is doing right, in particular the cou...