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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 28 January 2015

28 Jan 2015 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Women Offenders
McKelvie, Christina SNP Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse Watch on SPTV

A famous female offender said:

“Who were the women who, day by day, trod the very stones on which my feet now stood ... ? How and why had they broken the law, in what way were they enemies of Society? … Child-burdened women who were left without money, without the means or opportunity or physical power to earn it, who had stolen in order to save their lives and that of their children ... Women who from their childhood had been trained to physical shame”.

She went on to ask:

“If amongst such women there are many who are ... sodden by drink, undermined by drug taking ... what hope is there of cure by imprisonment?”

Those are the words of Emmeline Pankhurst in 1908, when she was imprisoned for her valiant campaign to gain votes for women. More than 100 years on, many of the testimonies that we have heard this afternoon show that, for women, the situation has not changed.

For me, the cabinet secretary’s very welcome decision is not just about bricks and mortar; it is about a fundamental shift in penal policy. Justice is, of course, a wider issue than prisons and prisoners. It encompasses gender justice, which many of my colleagues have spoken about today—men and women being treated by the courts in a consistent way. How our courts and our Prison Service deal with women offenders cannot ignore gender. The management of women who are given custodial sentences will be different from the management of men. The Scottish Government has already committed substantial funds to building a better prison system for all, and the £1.5 million announced by the cabinet secretary is testament to that continued commitment.

The carefully thought-out decision not to proceed with a new women’s prison at Inverclyde is welcome news, and I am glad that Michael Matheson took enough time to fully consider the information available to him. He has only been in post since 21 November, so the matter was clearly a great priority for him. During a visit to the 218 centre, he said that the plans did not fit with his vision for the future, and he reiterated that point today.

Many groups and individuals, including the Howard League, Soroptimist International, in its “Transforming Lives” report, Elaine Smith MSP, Margaret Mitchell MSP, Alison McInnes MSP and myself, when I was on the Equal Opportunities Committee, have been working on the issue for years, so it is truly one on which we can all stand together. That is integrity, and integrity and the right policy are what these women need.

The Scottish Government and the Scottish Prison Service will now undertake a period of extensive engagement with key partners—I say to the cabinet secretary that those key partners have already been phoning and emailing me to ask how they can get involved, and I am sure that they will be doing the same with him—with a view to investing in smaller regional and community-based custodial facilities across the country, which is something that we all strive for. That engagement will also involve looking at international models of best practice, and I am sure that the cabinet secretary has his eyes firmly fixed on Finland in that regard.

As Dame Elish Angiolini QC made clear in her report, women commit different types of crime for distinctively different reasons. Their motives are coloured by drug abuse, a dysfunctional or deprived family background, mental illness, being victims of violence themselves and sometimes confused desperation. She points out that

“While the proportions of the male and female populations in prison for violent offences are similar ... proportionally more women are in prison for ‘other’ crimes such as drugs-related crimes and crimes against public justice (29 per cent compared to 21 per cent) and dishonesty (19 per cent compared to 12 per cent).”

The consequences for women who go to prison also differ. We heard great testimony from Mary Fee on that today. Women are more likely to lose custody of their children and to end up leaving prison homeless.

All of that indicates how right Dame Elish’s recommendations are. We definitely need one-stop shops that are based on the 218 service and support organisations such as Circle, which is a great organisation in Hamilton that does fantastic work. We need a suite of services that meet the needs of women and which take geography into account. Such services work; small facilities for about 12 people allow those people to access a consistent range of services so that they reduce their reoffending and change their behaviour.

I do not have time to go through all the recommendations. I believe that my colleagues across the chamber have touched on many of them that we can all strive to achieve. The crucial thing is that we look at them.

I close with some information from the Howard League, which has informed us all in all the debates on this topic over many years. The Howard League has strongly welcomed the decision, with John Scott QC, its convener, describing it as “bold”. That is a bit like civil service speak, but we will accept it—the decision is bold and brave, perhaps.

In underlining the importance of Dame Elish’s report, Mr Scott pointed out:

“Most women in prison in Scotland today have complex needs that relate to their social circumstances, previous histories of abuse and mental health and addiction problems. The report stated unequivocally that most women who have offended do not need to be in prison”.

I believe that I have previously used the phrase in Parliament that some women who are in prison need a hospital bed rather than a prison cell.

Mr Scott went on to say:

“the impact of imprisonment on women and their families is often catastrophic. It was for this reason that the report recommended that Cornton Vale was closed and replaced”

with a smaller specialist unit.

It is clear that the Government wants to move forward with innovative responses and that the cabinet secretary is determined to seek more effective and meaningful ways forward than exist in the current system. That is good government with integrity. If we can all work together over the next few months, just as we have expressed our support for the Government’s decision, I am sure that we can realise the change that is really needed.

16:25  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith) Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-12160, in the name of Kezia Dugdale, on women offenders. I call Kezia Dugdale to speak to and move the mo...
Kezia Dugdale (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
I welcome the opportunity to devote Labour business time to female offending. It is to our collective shame that the female population of our prisons has dou...
Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) SNP
I am very much in tune with what Kezia Dugdale is saying. A Soroptimist International report that came out recently says that 80 per cent of women offenders ...
Kezia Dugdale Lab
I absolutely concur with that. Several Labour members will touch on mental health. I would have more sympathy with Stewart Stevenson’s position, however, if ...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Michael Matheson) SNP
Members are aware that I announced on Monday that the Scottish Prison Service’s plan for a women’s prison in Inverclyde will not go ahead because the plan do...
Kezia Dugdale Lab
I welcome the cabinet secretary’s remarks on evaluation. Can he tell us, in response to the question that I asked in my opening speech, whether he has examin...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Cabinet secretary—you are approaching your last 30 seconds.
Michael Matheson SNP
My officials are engaged in work on those projects. When the projects received funding two years ago, part of the agreement concerned their sustainability an...
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
I congratulate Labour on bringing the issue of women offenders to the chamber. I am sympathetic to the intent behind the motion, but it misses the mark with ...
Alison McInnes (North East Scotland) (LD) LD
I am so pleased that the Cabinet Secretary for Justice has reflected on the plan for HMP Inverclyde and listened to the progressive voices that were raised a...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
We move to the open debate. We do not have a lot of time available, so I ask members to keep to speeches of six minutes. 15:48
Roderick Campbell (North East Fife) (SNP) SNP
Like others, I welcomed the cabinet secretary’s statement on Monday. I also welcomed his considered response to the Justice Committee on 16 December. Members...
Elaine Murray (Dumfriesshire) (Lab) Lab
Like other members and the organisations that have campaigned for a rethink on the proposed female prison at Inverclyde, I welcome the cabinet secretary’s st...
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) SNP
I commend Alison McInnes, not just for her very measured and thoughtful speech, but because she has single-handedly kept the focus on the delivery of the rec...
Margaret Mitchell Con
Is the point not that the facility that was proposed was not in line with Elish Angiolini’s recommendations, which had been fully debated? It had been identi...
Christine Grahame SNP
None of us on the committee thought that what was proposed was perfect, but I do not recall anyone opposing it aggressively. We had huge reservations about l...
Mary Fee (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I congratulate the cabinet secretary on taking the decision not to go ahead with the proposed women’s prison in Inverclyde. We need a radical change in how w...
Roderick Campbell SNP
The member may recall that Dame Elish Angiolini, in giving evidence on child impact assessments, said: “I do not believe that any judge who sentenced withou...
Mary Fee Lab
I take on board that point. However, I am trying to make the point that the child and family impact assessment should be at the front and centre of decision ...
Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) SNP
I congratulate Kezia Dugdale on what was basically a broadly drawn and generally well-argued case. I agree on the broad thrust and disagree on the detail—tha...
Dr Richard Simpson (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
I have a couple of facts to share. The previous numeracy survey, which was carried out in 2013, says that 22 per cent of women had numeracy problems, 11 per ...
Stewart Stevenson SNP
I am grateful to the member for that. I am more familiar with the circumstances of male prisoners, because the sex offenders unit used to be in my constituen...
Christina McKelvie (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (SNP) SNP
A famous female offender said: “Who were the women who, day by day, trod the very stones on which my feet now stood ... ? How and why had they broken the la...
Jayne Baxter (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
When the Angiolini report was published, the then justice secretary, Kenny MacAskill, called it a “compelling vision for the future.” The centrepiece of th...
Christina McKelvie SNP
Like me, the member will know that three quarters of the women who are sent to jail receive sentences of six months or less. In 2008, the McLeish commission ...
Jayne Baxter Lab
Yes, to put it briefly. Statistics show that 70 per cent of women offenders who receive a prison sentence of three months or less are reconvicted of an offe...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott) Con
You should draw to a close, please.
Jayne Baxter Lab
On a related topic, the Scottish sentencing council is an important development. It will provide an opportunity for a wider range of voices to be heard in th...
Gil Paterson (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) SNP
I am pleased to speak in this debate on women offenders and how we can best deal with that problem. This is my first speech as a member of the Justice Commit...
Dr Richard Simpson (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
I begin as I do in almost all the speeches that I make in the chamber by praising the Government for the things that it is doing right, in particular the cou...