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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 23 April 2014

23 Apr 2014 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Living Wage

I welcome to the gallery members of staff from the national museum of Scotland. I am not going to use them as a political football. However, it will be of interest to Parliament to hear that, following discussions between the Cabinet Secretary for Culture and External Affairs and the chair and director of National Museums Scotland, the organisation is preparing proposals to introduce the Scottish living wage for employees of its trading company. [Applause.]

I thank James Kelly for giving the Government yet another opportunity to record our active support for the living wage and to state our commitment to doing as much as possible to tackle pay inequality, both with the powers that we have now and even more so with the additional powers that we will secure with a yes vote in the referendum later this year.

The Government’s commitment to the living wage goes beyond rhetoric, and is evidenced by the clear and decisive action that we have taken. We are, after all, the first Scottish Government ever to pay the living wage to our own employees and to everyone who works in the national health service, and we are committed to doing so for the entire duration of the Parliament. That is a decisive, long-term commitment to those who are on the lowest incomes.

James Kelly talked about “rank hypocrisy”. That would be an apt term to apply to the speech that he has just made. Let us not forget that Labour was in government in Scotland for eight years and that at no point during those eight years did it come close to adopting the living wage for its own staff or for staff in the NHS. As they say, Presiding Officer, actions speak much louder than words.

Although the Government does not set pay levels for staff in the private sector or, indeed, for staff in those parts of the public sector that are not covered by our pay policies, we nevertheless strongly and actively encourage all public, private and third sector organisations to pay the living wage. We fully support the principles of the wider living wage campaign. That support is illustrated not just through our own pay policy, but through our funding of the Poverty Alliance to pilot a living wage accreditation scheme to increase the number of private sector employers that pay the living wage in Scotland—a campaign that will be rolled out over the course of this year. No one should doubt the Government’s commitment to payment of the living wage.

Labour’s motion covers an issue that we have debated before: whether the Procurement Reform (Scotland) Bill can impose the living wage on contractors. The Government has given serious and careful consideration to how we use the bill to advance the living wage. It has never been a question of doing nothing; instead, the question is how to do as much as we can while staying within the confines of European law.

We sought advice from the European commissioner who is responsible for public procurement. The clear response, which reflects European Union case law, is that we cannot make the living wage a mandatory condition of contract. Glasgow City Council agrees with that. It said, as Chic Brodie mentioned, that EU regulations do not allow a mandatory requirement to pay the living wage in its contracts.

James Kelly mentioned Professor McCrudden’s legal opinion, which in effect says that we should amend regulations in order to set a higher minimum wage, thereby ignoring the fact that this Parliament does not have power over the minimum wage. Professor McCrudden’s legal opinion—I am citing paragraph 16, should James Kelly want to find it—says:

“I have not been instructed to consider whether such an amendment would be ... within the powers of the Scottish Parliament, and have not done so.”

Islington Council was also mentioned; its website says that, where EU law applies, the requirement for the living wage should not be made a precondition at the tender stage. The law is clear. We will continue to lobby for a change in EU law—

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott) Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-09740, in the name of James Kelly, on the living wage. 15:51
James Kelly (Rutherglen) (Lab) Lab
I welcome the opportunity to open, on behalf of the Labour Party, this afternoon’s debate on the living wage, because it is an important debate that is not a...
Chic Brodie (South Scotland) (SNP) SNP
Will James Kelly take an intervention?
James Kelly Lab
Let me get started. The suggestion would make a real difference now to the economy, to jobs and to the pay of working people, and there is no doubt that it ...
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) SNP
Will Mr Kelly give way?
James Kelly Lab
I will take Chic Brodie first.
Chic Brodie SNP
I will set all this in context. I understand James Kelly’s rationale and the feelings behind his motion, but how does he react to the fact that yesterday, in...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
Thank you.
Chic Brodie SNP
—to Renfrewshire, West Lothian and Inverclyde.
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
Thank you. That will do.
James Kelly Lab
Well read, Mr Brodie—you got all the way through that. I will deal specifically with the legal points, including that one, later in my speech. Let us not hid...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
Will the member give way?
James Kelly Lab
I will give way to John Mason, who is one of the MSPs who was photographed.
John Mason SNP
I absolutely was photographed. Does James Kelly accept that the living wage will not apply to some people in the private sector and that only by raising the...
James Kelly Lab
What about trying to apply the living wage to the workers in the national museum of Scotland shop? What about trying to apply it to the cleaners in the Scott...
Willie Rennie (Mid Scotland and Fife) (LD) LD
Does James Kelly agree with our amendment or does he not? I thought that Labour Party policy was to raise tax thresholds.
James Kelly Lab
Mr Rennie needs to look at the Government’s overall programme; the Government of which his party is a member has been more interested in handing out tax cuts...
Kevin Stewart SNP
Will James Kelly give way?
James Kelly Lab
Let me make the point. I refer members to the briefing that the Scottish living wage campaign provided for the debate, and specifically to what Professor Chr...
Kevin Stewart SNP
Mr Kelly has talked about legal advice. There is case law on the issue—Rüffert v Land Niedersachsen—which I have mentioned to Mr Kelly before. How does he th...
James Kelly Lab
Never mind the case law—I will give practical examples. What about the care contracts at Renfrewshire Council, which is paying the living wage? What about th...
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Infrastructure, Investment and Cities (Nicola Sturgeon) SNP
I welcome to the gallery members of staff from the national museum of Scotland. I am not going to use them as a political football. However, it will be of in...
Gavin Brown (Lothian) (Con) Con
Will the Deputy First Minister take an intervention?
Nicola Sturgeon SNP
I will not, just now. We cannot ignore the prevailing position simply because we do not agree with it. Equally, we are not prepared to do nothing, so we hav...
James Kelly Lab
Will the Deputy First Minister take an intervention?
Nicola Sturgeon SNP
I will not, just now. Part of the evaluation would be about pay and benefit. That was made implicit at stage 2. However, to make it more explicit, I confirm...
Jenny Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Will the Deputy First Minister take an intervention?
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
The Deputy First Minister is in her last minute.
Nicola Sturgeon SNP
The amendments will strengthen the bill and help to ensure that payment of the living wage gets the priority that it deserves. Crucially, they will do so wit...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
Can we have some order, please?