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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 18 June 2014

18 Jun 2014 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Scotland’s Future

I very much welcome this Labour debate. Johann Lamont said that a key question in the debate is whether yes or no is best for our public services. I very much agree.

The debate is very timely coming as it comes on the very same day that another senior Labour figure, the vice convener of Unison in Scotland, has declared for yes. Stephen Smellie’s backing for independence comes hard on the heels of that of Pat Kelly, senior Labour activist and former president of the Scottish Trades Union Congress, of Jamie Kerr, vice chair of Renfrewshire South Labour Party, and of Anum Quasar, the general secretary of Muslim friends of Labour Scotland.

All those people, together with people such as Alex Mosson, Charles Gray, Carol Fox and Bob Thomson, understand that independence is the best route to a fairer Scotland, and—who knows?—independence might also be the best route to a reinvigorated Labour Party. On the evidence of today, the Labour Party in Scotland badly needs to be reinvigorated.

All in all, Johann Lamont could not have picked a better moment to demonstrate how increasingly out of touch she is with her supporters, but the real reason why I welcome the debate is that it gives me—against the backdrop of building momentum for yes—a perfect opportunity to set out again the positive case for Scotland becoming an independent country.

First, I will set out the evidence that says that we can more than afford to be a successful, independent country. Johann Lamont’s speech was characterised by doom and gloom and woe, but let us just remind ourselves of the facts. An independent Scotland would be the 14th richest country of those in the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development and would sit four places above the UK, so instead of being worse off as the depressing Labour motion says that it would be, Scotland would be better off. We generate more output per head than Japan, France and the UK. For every one of the past 33 years we have generated more tax per person than the UK as a whole has done, and over the past five years our public finances have been stronger than the UK’s to the tune of £8.3 billion.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-10353, in the name of Johann Lamont, on Scotland’s future. 14:40
Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab) Lab
Earlier this week I joined my colleagues in the Scottish Conservatives and the Scottish Liberal Democrats to pledge more powers for Scotland. The people of S...
Chic Brodie (South Scotland) (SNP) SNP
After that litany of how poor we are all going to be, can the member tell me what the trade position of Scotland is compared with the trade position of the UK?
Johann Lamont Lab
If the member had listened to what I said, he would know that those are the views of independent experts. We know how good SNP members are at plucking a figu...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
Can the member guarantee that, if we stay in the UK, the Scottish budget will not be cut?
Johann Lamont Lab
Certainly, if there is a Labour Government back in power—Interruption.
The Presiding Officer NPA
Order.
Johann Lamont Lab
We know how desperately the SNP back benchers are praying for a Conservative victory in 2015. They always put their own interests ahead of those of the peopl...
Richard Lyle (Central Scotland) (SNP) SNP
That is outrageous.
The Presiding Officer NPA
Order.
Johann Lamont Lab
The SNP must confront the real world. Interruption.
The Presiding Officer NPA
Order.
Johann Lamont Lab
It must confront the real world—not the fantasy world it has been living in for the past two years. The SNP—the party which sided with Thatcher; the party w...
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Infrastructure, Investment and Cities (Nicola Sturgeon) SNP
I very much welcome this Labour debate. Johann Lamont said that a key question in the debate is whether yes or no is best for our public services. I very muc...
Gavin Brown (Lothian) (Con) Con
Given that she has said that Scotland would be the 14th richest country in the OECD, does the Deputy First Minister not feel a little bit silly for saying in...
Nicola Sturgeon SNP
The key point here is that the relative advantage of Scotland over the UK is absolutely maintained. I do not know whether the Conservatives think that it is ...
Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (Lab) Lab
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?
Nicola Sturgeon SNP
Not at the moment. Scotland can be independent—of that there is not a shadow of doubt—but the question on the ballot paper is not “Can we?” but “Should we?”...
Malcolm Chisholm Lab
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
Nicola Sturgeon SNP
Not at the moment. I think that the founders of the Labour Party will have been turning in their graves as they listened to Johann Lamont, not just at her o...
Annabel Goldie (West Scotland) (Con) Con
Will the Deputy First Minister give way?
Nicola Sturgeon SNP
I am coming to you, Miss Goldie, so be patient. The Labour motion talks down Scotland in virtually every line.
Johann Lamont Lab
If Nicola Sturgeon knew about the proud history of the Labour Party, she would know that it is about solidarity and co-operation across the whole of the UK. ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott) Con
Order.
Johann Lamont Lab
The history of the Labour Party is about solidarity with the people of Belfast, Cardiff and Newcastle, who face the same problems that we do; it is not about...
Nicola Sturgeon SNP
I know that the proud history of the Labour Party is being betrayed by Johann Lamont day in, day out, because the only solidarity that she shows these days i...
Annabel Goldie Con
Will the Deputy First Minister give way?
Nicola Sturgeon SNP
I am coming to you right now. The dismal lack of ambition in the Labour motion is almost as bad as a comment that Annabel Goldie made at a debate that I did...
Gavin Brown Con
Will the Deputy First Minister give way?
Nicola Sturgeon SNP
Not at the moment. More than that, we have set out how policies to boost productivity, grow our population and increase participation in the labour market c...