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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 18 June 2014

18 Jun 2014 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Scotland’s Future

It must confront the real world—not the fantasy world it has been living in for the past two years.

The SNP—the party which sided with Thatcher; the party which said that Scotland did not mind her economics; the party which sided with the people who said that unemployment was a price worth paying—is now saying that there is no price too high for Scotland to pay for separation. A deficit more than double the rate of the UK deficit? That will be fine. Losing more than the entire education budget? A mere bagatelle. Losing thousands of nurses? Scotland can afford that.

The truth of the matter is that the nationalists think that they will liberate Scotland; instead, they will impoverish Scotland. The truth is that no one joined the SNP to improve public services; they joined to separate Scotland from the rest of the UK. They are so determined to do that they will say anything about anything else because everything is a side issue to the main event.

Scotland’s public services face two futures on September 2014: a future after a yes vote in which all the experts agree Scotland will face renewed austerity over and above what we currently face and cuts to schools and hospitals as a consequence; or we could face a different future if Scotland votes no.

We know that the best future for our schools and hospitals is one in which we can make the key decisions here at the Scottish Parliament but backed by the economic security and stability of the United Kingdom. The best future is one in which we in Scotland decide what is best for our young people’s education and our national health service, but we share the costs across 60 million people rather than 6 million. Pooling and sharing resources; spreading risk and sharing reward: that is the argument that is persuading a majority of Scots that a no vote will give us the best of both worlds.

I move,

That the Parliament recognises that the best future for Scotland is one where its devolved public services are delivered by the Scottish Parliament but backed by the security and stability of the United Kingdom; acknowledges the many financial experts, economists and think tanks that believe that Scotland would be worse off financially if it were an independent country, and agrees that the best way to ensure a high level of investment in its schools, hospitals and public services is for Scotland to stay strong in the UK, allowing it to pool and share resources with its neighbours, which means that the people of Scotland enjoy the best of both worlds.

14:54

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-10353, in the name of Johann Lamont, on Scotland’s future. 14:40
Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab) Lab
Earlier this week I joined my colleagues in the Scottish Conservatives and the Scottish Liberal Democrats to pledge more powers for Scotland. The people of S...
Chic Brodie (South Scotland) (SNP) SNP
After that litany of how poor we are all going to be, can the member tell me what the trade position of Scotland is compared with the trade position of the UK?
Johann Lamont Lab
If the member had listened to what I said, he would know that those are the views of independent experts. We know how good SNP members are at plucking a figu...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
Can the member guarantee that, if we stay in the UK, the Scottish budget will not be cut?
Johann Lamont Lab
Certainly, if there is a Labour Government back in power—Interruption.
The Presiding Officer NPA
Order.
Johann Lamont Lab
We know how desperately the SNP back benchers are praying for a Conservative victory in 2015. They always put their own interests ahead of those of the peopl...
Richard Lyle (Central Scotland) (SNP) SNP
That is outrageous.
The Presiding Officer NPA
Order.
Johann Lamont Lab
The SNP must confront the real world. Interruption.
The Presiding Officer NPA
Order.
Johann Lamont Lab
It must confront the real world—not the fantasy world it has been living in for the past two years. The SNP—the party which sided with Thatcher; the party w...
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Infrastructure, Investment and Cities (Nicola Sturgeon) SNP
I very much welcome this Labour debate. Johann Lamont said that a key question in the debate is whether yes or no is best for our public services. I very muc...
Gavin Brown (Lothian) (Con) Con
Given that she has said that Scotland would be the 14th richest country in the OECD, does the Deputy First Minister not feel a little bit silly for saying in...
Nicola Sturgeon SNP
The key point here is that the relative advantage of Scotland over the UK is absolutely maintained. I do not know whether the Conservatives think that it is ...
Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (Lab) Lab
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?
Nicola Sturgeon SNP
Not at the moment. Scotland can be independent—of that there is not a shadow of doubt—but the question on the ballot paper is not “Can we?” but “Should we?”...
Malcolm Chisholm Lab
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
Nicola Sturgeon SNP
Not at the moment. I think that the founders of the Labour Party will have been turning in their graves as they listened to Johann Lamont, not just at her o...
Annabel Goldie (West Scotland) (Con) Con
Will the Deputy First Minister give way?
Nicola Sturgeon SNP
I am coming to you, Miss Goldie, so be patient. The Labour motion talks down Scotland in virtually every line.
Johann Lamont Lab
If Nicola Sturgeon knew about the proud history of the Labour Party, she would know that it is about solidarity and co-operation across the whole of the UK. ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott) Con
Order.
Johann Lamont Lab
The history of the Labour Party is about solidarity with the people of Belfast, Cardiff and Newcastle, who face the same problems that we do; it is not about...
Nicola Sturgeon SNP
I know that the proud history of the Labour Party is being betrayed by Johann Lamont day in, day out, because the only solidarity that she shows these days i...
Annabel Goldie Con
Will the Deputy First Minister give way?
Nicola Sturgeon SNP
I am coming to you right now. The dismal lack of ambition in the Labour motion is almost as bad as a comment that Annabel Goldie made at a debate that I did...
Gavin Brown Con
Will the Deputy First Minister give way?
Nicola Sturgeon SNP
Not at the moment. More than that, we have set out how policies to boost productivity, grow our population and increase participation in the labour market c...